Caveman vs THE PAIN

[rorybestsbigbaldnoggin]

Discussed elsewhere and hopefully Rooster will have the video, but when Cave was substituted for Payne around the 52 minute mark, he definitely blanks him, and shoulders him out of the road on the way off the pitch.


How do we feel about this? I know I should be annoyed with a player acting in that way to any other member of the squad, but I can't bring myself to be angry with Darren. He's on a serious run of form, the organiser of our defensive line, and we are facing a momentum shift in an always-tricky Italian away game. No doubt he has selfish reasons to be pished off as well, but they're relatively accurate, and there's never a question of him placing Ireland (or any other team/level) above Ulster.

[shamalicious]

Watched the incident again last night. I think it was Olding he seemed to
"bump" as he went off but didn't look happy or really acknowledge Payne when he came on... BUT as I mentioned elsewhere, I can completely understand why the poor guy would be drunk off.

[Wee Woman]

I don't think I've seen a single friendly exchange or hand tap between Cave and Payne at sub time.

I agree it's not right but when its as clear as the nose on your face that Payne is no where near as effective at 13 for us as Cave you can't help but feel for him. I even find myself coming round to the idea that if Payne wants to continue at 13 maybe he would be better served elsewhere.

It matters not a jot what form Cave is in, he can rack up an many MOTM awards as he likes but Ireland need Payne fit for the 6 Nations and orders are orders .

Although the more I see of Henshaw the more I am convinced that he will be the man in possesion come the RWC. Payne will likely spend most of his time getting splinters on his ar$e on the bench. I'm convinced he's pretty much just a back up option if Henshaw doesn't make it through injury.

[rorybestsbigbaldnoggin]

Although the more I see of Henshaw the more I am convinced that he will be the man in possesion come the RWC. Payne will likely spend most of his time getting splinters on his ar$e on the bench. I'm convinced he's pretty much just a back up option if Henshaw doesn't make it through injury.

Henshaw is Schmidt's man, certainly. My pecking order for the jersey would be

Henshaw
Cave
Fitzgerald (although he will presumably break himself again)
Bowe, Trimble or any of several other wingers
Payne

[Gary]

If Cave blanked Payne, I suppose it wasn't the right thing to do. But this problem has been caused by Payne/Doak/Schmidt/Anscombe. Simple as that. I have no doubt that Payne is a perfectly good 13, but he is not as good there as Cave and he is by far our best 15.

When we were racing along in the Real Heiny last season, the 2 guys were in their proper positions and we were playing some excellent stuff. Now , we're sending out teams picked solely to accommodate this strange Payne for Ireland at 13 theory and Gilroy, Marshall and Olding have found themselves playing out of position as a result.

Moreover. we had to use up an NIQ place to cover 15 totally unnecessarily. Now, how much this has been brought about by Payne, I don't know, but it sure as hell isn't helping his popularity with many fans. Or Schmidt's. Or Doak's.

[Big-al]

Although the more I see of Henshaw the more I am convinced that he will be the man in possesion come the RWC. Payne will likely spend most of his time getting splinters on his ar$e on the bench. I'm convinced he's pretty much just a back up option if Henshaw doesn't make it through injury.

Henshaw is Schmidt's man, certainly. My pecking order for the jersey would be

Henshaw
Cave
Fitzgerald (although he will presumably break himself again)
Bowe, Trimble or any of several other wingers
Payne

Cave got his chance with Ireland in the autumn and was muck. He cannot complain if Schmidt prefers Payne at 13.

[rorybestsbigbaldnoggin]

Although the more I see of Henshaw the more I am convinced that he will be the man in possesion come the RWC. Payne will likely spend most of his time getting splinters on his ar$e on the bench. I'm convinced he's pretty much just a back up option if Henshaw doesn't make it through injury.

Henshaw is Schmidt's man, certainly. My pecking order for the jersey would be

Henshaw
Cave
Fitzgerald (although he will presumably break himself again)
Bowe, Trimble or any of several other wingers
Payne

Cave got his chance with Ireland in the autumn and was muck. He cannot complain if Schmidt prefers Payne at 13.

Payne got the ball 6 times against South Africa.

Made 0 passes, got turned over twice, then hurt himself.

Missed a couple of tackles too.

[Cornerfleg]

If I said Rum and Big Al .... would Fermain send me a nasty PM?????

[Bangors]

As I have already posted on another thread
NOW is the time to look South of the Border down Mexico way
And arrange a swap - The coaches favourite 13 for any one of their back row options
Cave is SO much more effective both in attack and particularly in defence for ULSTER
and with Ludik, Nelson, Andrew, Gilroy etc. we have more than adequate cover at 15

[Cockatrice]

As I have already posted on another thread
NOW is the time to look South of the Border down Mexico way
And arrange a swap - The coaches favourite 13 for any one of their back row options
Cave is SO much more effective both in attack and particularly in defence for ULSTER
and with Ludik, Nelson, Andrew, Gilroy etc. we have more than adequate cover at 15

Not sure he would make the Leinster 13 shirt....... Or for that matter Munster and with Connaught already having the best 13 in Henshaw no scope there.

[rorybestsbigbaldnoggin]

As I have already posted on another thread
NOW is the time to look South of the Border down Mexico way
And arrange a swap - The coaches favourite 13 for any one of their back row options
Cave is SO much more effective both in attack and particularly in defence for ULSTER
and with Ludik, Nelson, Andrew, Gilroy etc. we have more than adequate cover at 15

Last summer was the time to do it, but alas . . .

[CIMANFOREVER]

Changed times from 2 years ago, when his shyte was golden. Alternatively, we could put him back to 15, as we pay his bills, and have done with it. Everyone happy, except JP and JS. But needs must. With JP at 13, we dont have our strongest 15 or 13 on the pitch (ad nauseum..) Madness.

[Cornerfleg]

It's very annoying that such a supremely gifted player is copping so much stick ... but this serious ballix about playing 13 has had a knock on effect to the whole team, our recruitment of needed players and utter jaw dropping disbelief from the fans who are watching a potentially decent we side go down the pan faster than a Sunday evening curry on a Monday morning in trap 2.

[eeyore]

As I have already posted on another thread
NOW is the time to look South of the Border down Mexico way
And arrange a swap - The coaches favourite 13 for any one of their back row options
Cave is SO much more effective both in attack and particularly in defence for ULSTER
and with Ludik, Nelson, Andrew, Gilroy etc. we have more than adequate cover at 15

Not sure he would make the Leinster 13 shirt....... Or for that matter Munster and with Connaught already having the best 13 in Henshaw no scope there.

He shouldn't make the Ulster 13 shirt either!!

[rumncoke]

Fleg who rattled your cage i haven't yet posted on this thread.

I defended Payne against the abuse he received regarding the Red Card. That was it .

Whether Payne , Doak, or Humphreys or whoever decides Payne plays 13 or 15 is not really a matter I or anyone else knows the truth about Whether Cave is a better 13 than Payne is a matter of opinion .

My take would be that Payne was signed by Ulster with the blessing of the IRFU with an understanding that he was a "project" player and at the time he was signed Ireland lacked an obvious replacement for BoD and or cover at full back for Kearney ( with Earls and Fitzgerald doing the job while Kearney was injured }

Having been signed as a" project replacement International " if Ulster deny him the opportunity to play for his place they could be in breach of Contract.

Personal there are some names I like to see appear on an Ulster team sheet and Payne is one of them whether it is at 13 or 15 doesn't matter

The other two names in the back line are RUAN AND JACKSON