Humphreys for ireland

[bogboy]

Gatland understood that in certain circumstances DH had certain flaws to his game he also recognised that in some matches conversion of penalties into points was going to be the key factor in winning

I am still not that convinced that IH is the saviour of Ulster Rugby never mind Ireland like his brother he has good days and bad and when bad his bad is reflected in the team performance and results

but I do admit that when good his pace at outhalf can provide players outside opportunities and the one thing the Robot lacks is real pace and the word here is real pace

The problem then is that IH because of his pace can take the wrong option at times whereas RoG not having the pace doesn't have a choice of options and therefore makes fewer mistakes

now RoG has been playing a more open game at Munster recently but the Munster backline 10 12 and 13 are a much flatter backline than Ulsters with the 12 having to be quick over the first three paces and /or jink to make a break or space

At International level flat backlines tend to get caught in possession or have to kick and the ball seldom gets to the wing

but for this 6N I don't see Kidney dropping RoG a few others maybe not RoG

I expect that most of the old faces will be in the enlarged squad and even in the match day 22 but some may not be in the starting 15

[Jackie Brown]

Ian humphreys time will come.

I'm not a fan of ROG in any sense of the world but he is the best option Ireland have at present. Kidney can't be scared to let iHumph have a lash though.

I do love the Irony of iHumph coming in and taking ROG's shirt in the same way ROG took Daveys.

[fuzzylogic]

Im just wondering if Earls playing at 13 against Sale at the weekend had anything to do with a certain Irish squad being named. Perhaps DK had a word with whoever in charge of that munster outfit these days and asked to see him playing in the position before deciding on his selection!

[Fly Half]

The problem from this is aside from BOD you don't really have another player in the team that could play 12 should Brian do his hamstring after 10 minutes so thus Wallace will have to be on the bench. Earls will also be on the bench as he can cover wing, fullback and centre with relative distinction.

Earls played 12 for Ireland A and in your scenario would be renewing his partnership with his best mate Cave should he have to slot in there, so there would be adequate cover on the bench. Few in Ulster (nevermind Ireland), consider Paddy to be a competent outhalf so if ROG gets injured where's the cover? Paddy's limited gametime thus far at 10 shows the Irish management have no faith in him as a fly half, and his benchtime has been purely as cover for place kicks. Therefore why would Kidney pick Paddy for the bench when probably both Humphreys and Keatley are better off the tee and Earls is adequate 12 cover?

[BPH]

I've been very pleasantly surprised by IH, he's been in superb form and I'm hugely pleased by his progress. But for those wishing to drop ROG as he's allegedly "crap" - twaddle is the correct term. In fact, it's way too mild and shows a blatantly lack of understanding of rugby at the highest level.

ROG is - rightly - the Ireland 10 and will be for the forseeable future. If Humph keeps progressing, he is a viable alternative from the bench this season at most. In seasons to come - who knows, we definitely need someone to take the mantle.

For the record, PW is comfortably the form 12 in Ireland and should be played accordingly.

[Fly Half]

For the record, PW is comfortably the form 12 in Ireland and should be played accordingly.

I agree with this but I can't see Kidney picking him - not because of any provincial bias but because he will have ROG inside him.

1. ROG's pass is slow so the 12 get's no time, and holding ability is at a premium
2. ROG tends to stand back 'in the pocket' - that allows the oppo defence to get up on the centres
3. ROG has no running game so the oppo backrows can immediately target the midfield
4. ROG has an excellent tactical kicking game so the need for a kicking inside centre is reduced.
5. ROG is a mediocre tackler. (Paddy is a decent enough tackler, but not destructive enough to make up the shortfall considering the 10/12 channel would be targeted all game).

In short all the qualities that make Paddy the form 12 are dependent on the service inside him. If you don't believe me ask Gordon D'Arcy!

[LePaul]

Sorry Mikerob - my glasses are pretty clear. O'Gara, in a green shirt, offered nothing in 2003 and still offers nothing now. In fact, as has been said by others here, he now offers even less.

David H could create play against the run of play. He had/has a much better tactical brain than the ROBOT and he can do it despite whomever he has in front, to the left and right wings and behind him. He was brought into the 2003 Australia qtr finals in the last few minutes to try and do something to try and turn the match because even the deadbeat O'Sullivan understood that David had the ability to think outside of the box. I didnt christan ROBOT - ROBOT for nothing. There is no lateral thinking from O'Gara.

No -sorry Mike - you outweigh me with rugby knowledge but O'Gara is the ultimate 1 trick nag. He has achieved shag all in a green shirt that wasnt won on the back of others. He is a tag-along.

And as for disliking the man - i feckin loathe him - moaning - crying - gurning SOAB

[Jackie Brown]

Le Paul, I would like to buy you a pint.

[Big-al]

Im just wondering if Earls playing at 13 against Sale at the weekend had anything to do with a certain Irish squad being named. Perhaps DK had a word with whoever in charge of that munster outfit these days and asked to see him playing in the position before deciding on his selection!

Tipoki is injured and Keith Earls is next in line to him, saying that Munster have Paul Warwick who is a great player who can play at 15 then thats probably why McGahen picked Earls at 13

[Jackie Brown]

any man with a facebook profile picture as crazy as humph deserves to play for ireland, ogara could never compare

I prefer Cave's!

[mikerob]

David H could create play against the run of play. He had/has a much better tactical brain than the ROBOT and he can do it despite whomever he has in front, to the left and right wings and behind him.

If DH was so great, where are all the amazing Irish victories? I can only think of 2 games when DH really performed against top class opposition for 80 minutes - v England in 2001 and v France in 2003.

The Ireland team of the late 90s early 00s was mediocre and DH was as mediocre as the rest of them. Who was OH for the Lens debacle? Not ROG...

He was brought into the 2003 Australia qtr finals in the last few minutes to try and do something to try and turn the match

...and missed the drop goal that would have won it.

He has achieved shag all in a green shirt that wasnt won on the back of others. He is a tag-along.

If you hadn't noticed, rugby is a team game. Whn it comes to winning, ROG has done pretty well and DH has underachieved - like never winning against a SH team for Ireland or winning away in England or France with Ulster.

And as for disliking the man - i feckin loathe him - moaning - crying - gurning SOAB

Definitely no rose tinted glasses then... just blinded by hatred? Seriously, it may fit your prejudices to have the bad, nasty ROG v brave, gallant DH but real life isn't like a fairy story. Are you going to get over the whole ROG v DH thing or will it just sit in your mind festering? Its history - get over it - neither player was good as their fan clubs would like to believe.

[Cossax]

BOD, i honestly do no think has the hammers to play at 13 anymore and no matter what anyone thinks he will not be dropped thus will be playing 12...though obviously in the 13 shirt.

The options are for my reckoning: Fitzgerald, Cave or Earls @ 13. Fitz has been put out of 13 by Leinster, Earls plays 15 in a full strength Munster XV leaving Cave who has performed admirably this season as the prime runner (in my ulster slanted opinion of course).

The problem from this is aside from BOD you don't really have another player in the team that could play 12 should Brian do his hamstring after 10 minutes so thus Wallace will have to be on the bench. Earls will also be on the bench as he can cover wing, fullback and centre with relative distinction.

It would be a pleasant surprise but i cannot see IH making the '22 at this stage for above reason.

Should be a Kearney Bowe Cave Wallace (I would say Dowling, he's the form 11 but it'll cause the internet to blow up) ROG and TOL backline.

Murphy Humph Earls on the bench. IMO.

[bogboy]

RHH

Fitz has had his chances and to honest has never lived up to the hype

He has skill and pace but lacks the control necessary at International level - a bit of a loose cannon - off loading when he should die with the ball and currently is not a first choice anything on the leinster team he gets slotted into the team as injury strikes at either oc or wing and on occasion even full- back

I therefore don't see any grounds to consider he is an International oc or even wing like Paddy he could be doomed to a role on the bench a reasonable cover for a number of positions should injury occur during a match but because he plays wide of the forwards would never be considered an impact player.

if you exclude outhalf

The backs of tomorrow would be at this time Kearney Bowe Cave Earls and Trimble maybe even McCrea and why you may ask do I include Trimble simple he has a power and pace and a rugby brain which actually improves by the players around
and I recognise that there are those who consider he has low skill levels -- it never stopped Horgan amassing a lot of caps

Trimble scores trys and tackles ( most of Trimbles missed tackles and defensive errors have been based on tactics and he does have jinx player in S Williams who to be honest is jinx player for alot of wingers )

Of the players named only three really have the ability to be reasonable cover for more than two positions Kearney Earls and Bowe but since they are in my starting line up then Fitz is my Bench man because whilst not an impact player himself he would enable other backline alignments and adjustments to be made eg Bowe to centre Kearney to wing etc

[Bart S]

RHH

Fitz has had his chances and to honest has never lived up to the hype

He has skill and pace but lacks the control necessary at International level - a bit of a loose cannon - off loading when he should die with the ball and currently is not a first choice anything on the leinster team he gets slotted into the team as injury strikes at either oc or wing and on occasion even full- back

I therefore don't see any grounds to consider he is an International oc or even wing like Paddy he could be doomed to a role on the bench a reasonable cover for a number of positions should injury occur during a match but because he plays wide of the forwards would never be considered an impact player.

if you exclude outhalf

The backs of tomorrow would be at this time Kearney Bowe Cave Earls and Trimble maybe even McCrea and why you may ask do I include Trimble simple he has a power and pace and a rugby brain which actually improves by the players around
and I recognise that there are those who consider he has low skill levels -- it never stopped Horgan amassing a lot of caps

Trimble scores trys and tackles ( most of Trimbles missed tackles and defensive errors have been based on tactics and he does have jinx player in S Williams who to be honest is jinx player for alot of wingers )

Bogboy - I have to take issue with most of your comments about Trimble. Personally I don't feel he should be anywhere near the Ireland team right now. He has never really looked comfortable on the wing for Ireland and the ability of opposition wingers to step inside him is pretty alarming. As a centre, he had a real opportunity last year to claim a spot in D'Arcy's absence, but again I don't think he ever really looked the part. Even when playing centre for Ulster, I wouldn't rate his performances over the past 2 years anywhere near those of Cave and Wallace this season, either as an attacking threat, or even defensively.

He may be versatile, but right now, I don't see him playing at anywhere near the required level for Ireland. He has offered little threat from the wing for Ulster this season and if we want a defensive winger, then Dowling looks a much better bet.

Going back on topic - DK has already shown an inclination to go with Paddy as his back up 10 on the bench, although I suspect if ROG was to miss a game, IH (most likely) or Keatley would get the nod to start ahead of Paddy. I'm a PW fan, but as a 12 and not a 10. It's a bit like the old "can Paddy play 15" debate. He has not got what it takes to be a top class 10, but is developing into an excellent 12.

Finally on DH, I have to agree with Mikerob.Whilst Hump was simply brilliant for Ulster on numerous occasions, for whatever reason, this was not translated into performances in the Ireland shirt. Would not dispute that he was more talented than ROG, but ROG has delivered more often for Ireland. It's too simple to say that ROG always played behind great packs for Munster and Ireland - they can set the platform but someone has to execute the plan and ROG has done this on a number of occasions. Yes, he has also had many shockers and his form has dipped alarmingly over the past 18 months or so, but Gatland, EOS, Henry and Woodward all chose ROG over DH on the big occasions.

[LePaul]

mikerob wrotre

Seriously, it may fit your prejudices to have the bad, nasty ROG v brave, gallant DH but real life isn't like a fairy story. Are you going to get over the whole ROG v DH thing or will it just sit in your mind festering? Its history - get over it - neither player was good as their fan clubs would like to believe.

I like that bit.

Its not hatred and the SOAB thing was tongue in cheek - but its not hatred. Its a total dislike for a man who cried and sobbed his way through one of the best eras of Irish rugby for a long long time. I take your point about the 90's and mediocrity and, in part, DH may well have achieved better had he been allowed to play with the team that developed from 1999/2000 onwards. Had he been given the real opportunity and not cameo appearances he may well have had his illusive SH win. The fact that O'Gara has been accredited with greater results than David Humphreys is mainly down to the point that you make - Humphreys hadnt got the team to work with - O'Gara had and failed, IMO, more times than he delivered.

I dont ever recall Humphreys, no matter how bad a game he'd had, coming off and virtually crying into O'Sullivans ear that the ball wasnt standard and that is why he'd missed 17 kicks to touch and a bag full of penalties (as he did against Italy away some years ago).

How many times have you heard commentators - Moore being one regular, who yelled out about O'Gara during matches and questioned why O'Sullivan had kept Humphreys on the bench. It wasnt once or twice rather several. Anyway, as you say its history and history doesn’t repeat itself. Or does it?

Jackie Brown wrote

Le Paul, I would like to buy you a pint.

If you are in Paris this weekend I'll take you up on that offer.

mikerob if you are there, I'd buy you a pint and then we could talk about anything but O'Gara and Humphreys