6 Nations 2023

[Jetstream]

Wales v England Six Nations clash in doubt over possible strike action from Warren Gatland’s squad
Wales players could go on strike for the Six Nations clash with England
Wales players could go on strike for the Six Nations clash with England
February 14 2023 06:41 PM

Wales’ Six Nations match with England is in doubt after reports that Warren Gatland’s squad are considering strike action over their stalling contract renewals.

Wales host Steve Borthwick’s side in Cardiff next Saturday week for their third Six Nations match but the fixture is under threat with Wales' players reportedly using antidepressants and missing out on mortgage offers due to the dispute.

The Welsh Rugby Union (WRU) and the country’s four regions have been discussing a new deal, but an agreement is still to be reached, leaving a sizeable number of players with uncertain futures.

Reports claim that all professional players in Wales will meet this week to discuss possible strike action.

A player who has featured in both of Wales’ matches in this year's Six Nations told the Daily Mail: "I can’t believe I’m five months away from the end of my contract and eight months away from the World Cup and my future isn’t certain yet."

"I can’t apply for a mortgage and I’m on antidepressants. I’m also one big injury away from not having a job in July yet I’m starting for Wales every week and the WRU is making tens of millions from international matches."

[Dave]

Wales are finished.

[BR]

The bit I was referring to is when ref's take the easy option of giving the try just because the player has managed to ground the ball despite foul play, and not giving the penalty try sanction the foul play deserves.

Lowe was diving for the corner, he was not going to miraculously recover his feet and run around to dot down under the posts. Therefore not possible to award a penalty try in such circumstances.

FWIW - I think there was enough arm involved in the tackle to rule out a shoulder charge.

BTW - why is not called a 'Penalty Goal' now?

Surely in the event of foul play, the criteria for a pen try is: remove the defender completely from the equation then determine whether there is another covering defender who could have prevented the score. If Lowe had not been tackled in that manner he would never have been in touch. Is being in a position to dot down under the posts a determining factor?

You may be correct about the tackle but it should have been looked at.

Take out the defender completely - Lowe is still flying through the air towards the corner

The only reason a ref can award a PT is if the foul prevents a try being scored - clearly it did not, or if it prevents a try being scored closer to the posts (hence being able to dot down under the posts is the determining factor here)

But for me there was no foul play

[CIMANFOREVER]

Wales v England Six Nations clash in doubt over possible strike action from Warren Gatland’s squad
Wales players could go on strike for the Six Nations clash with England
Wales players could go on strike for the Six Nations clash with England
February 14 2023 06:41 PM

Wales’ Six Nations match with England is in doubt after reports that Warren Gatland’s squad are considering strike action over their stalling contract renewals.

Wales host Steve Borthwick’s side in Cardiff next Saturday week for their third Six Nations match but the fixture is under threat with Wales' players reportedly using antidepressants and missing out on mortgage offers due to the dispute.

The Welsh Rugby Union (WRU) and the country’s four regions have been discussing a new deal, but an agreement is still to be reached, leaving a sizeable number of players with uncertain futures.

Reports claim that all professional players in Wales will meet this week to discuss possible strike action.

A player who has featured in both of Wales’ matches in this year's Six Nations told the Daily Mail: "I can’t believe I’m five months away from the end of my contract and eight months away from the World Cup and my future isn’t certain yet."

"I can’t apply for a mortgage and I’m on antidepressants. I’m also one big injury away from not having a job in July yet I’m starting for Wales every week and the WRU is making tens of millions from international matches."

Grim stuff. I never thought I'd feel sorry for the Welsh but their union seems more inept than the RFU. It's peoples careers, but their union is treating them as cash cows like the bad old days of amateurism- suits and committees lording over their assets for free.
Gatland should've more sense than to rejoin this sh#tshow.

[CIMANFOREVER]

Wales v England Six Nations clash in doubt over possible strike action from Warren Gatland’s squad
Wales players could go on strike for the Six Nations clash with England
Wales players could go on strike for the Six Nations clash with England
February 14 2023 06:41 PM

Wales’ Six Nations match with England is in doubt after reports that Warren Gatland’s squad are considering strike action over their stalling contract renewals.

Wales host Steve Borthwick’s side in Cardiff next Saturday week for their third Six Nations match but the fixture is under threat with Wales' players reportedly using antidepressants and missing out on mortgage offers due to the dispute.

The Welsh Rugby Union (WRU) and the country’s four regions have been discussing a new deal, but an agreement is still to be reached, leaving a sizeable number of players with uncertain futures.

Reports claim that all professional players in Wales will meet this week to discuss possible strike action.

A player who has featured in both of Wales’ matches in this year's Six Nations told the Daily Mail: "I can’t believe I’m five months away from the end of my contract and eight months away from the World Cup and my future isn’t certain yet."

"I can’t apply for a mortgage and I’m on antidepressants. I’m also one big injury away from not having a job in July yet I’m starting for Wales every week and the WRU is making tens of millions from international matches."

Grim stuff. I never thought I'd feel sorry for the Welsh but their union seems more inept than the RFU. It's peoples careers, but their union is treating them as cash cows like the bad old days of amateurism- suits and committees lording over their assets for free.
Gatland should've more sense than to rejoin this sh#tshow.
Those who are able and out of contract should save themselves and feck the WRU.

[justinr73]

Not seen this reported before but Jackman on today’s Rugby Pod is well worth a listen.

Seems that the theme in the camp before the France game was Ulster (explaining Hendy’s post-game comments no doubt).

BOD (don’t laugh - he did that documentary), Craig Doyle (again, don’t laugh - Joe Lindsay was going to do it until he read Big Merv’s comments) and, somewhat more on point, Doc Irwin, spoke to the group.

One player said that his mates used to congratulate him for not singing Ireland’s Call.

They all agreed to be nice to Ulstermen in the future and hugged it out. Sexton was said to be uncharacteristically emotional during the anthems as a result.

It’s needed a Lionel (nb there aren’t many Lionels in Wigan from my experience) to bring this level of unity to the squad.

Now he just needs to pick some Ulster players!

[rumncoke]

Bobby there are very few out-halfs can do it,it requires a creative out -half to win games in those circumstances and in my humble opinion Byrne is a two trick pony -- the kick to a wide wing and ???

Ireland and Leinster struggle when force to play in their own half of the field and are denied penalties into the 22.

Why their attacking options are limited by the back selection -of defensive kick return wings and the limited approach to the game by the out half selection and approach .

[rumncoke]

Now for something different

I have read somewhere where BoD wishes that the arm grab on a scrum half be penalised -- claiming the player grabbing the arm is off-side. -

In my honest opinion scrum- halfs are given possibly to much protection in my opinion the ball is in play as soon as the scrum half touches the ball with his hand or as soon as the ball is beyond the last foot in the ruck.

gone are the days when offside was define by ball and in front of the ball was offside -- it made things so much simpler the referee only had to refer to ball not hind feet of the ruck which may be difference of 2 yards from where the ball is.

BoD its a rubbish Idea an arm grap at least provides the opportunity for a change of possession beyond the endless 50/50 calls for failure to release . recognising there are more offences may be committed by the tackling team than the side in possession.

Failure to rollaway -- off you feet -- in from the side -- off side

Next was a Tommy Bowe idea

Red card could be a sin of 10 minutes -- but then the return of a sub -- the offending player can not return -- it penalises the player and to lesser extent the team -- red cards are seldom team offences -- like continuously dropping a ruck etc but the team is penalised by the individual offence of a player -- on most occasions the offence is unintended --

( if the referee where to consider the offence was deliberate the the player could be double carded shown as a yellow plus red and there would be no replacement after 10 minutes ) this later in ( ) is my own opinion

But I do believe TBs idea has merit for two reasons if the offence occurs early in the game the game as an equal contest no longer exists and secondly insect circumstances it is possible that players on the side with 14 players maybe more exposed to injury.

[big mervyn]

Introducing the concept of "intent" is always likely to be somewhat problematic Rum.

[Dublin4]

Beirne out for 12 weeks following ankle operation. Presume Henderson moves in. McCarthy, Treadwell or Baird next up?

[Godots bedpan]

They should have another look at Jean Kleyn or possibly Niall Murray from Connacht.
Playing as well as anyone listed above

[jean valjean]

2 time lion Henderson is the shoe in. Crazy how he gets overlooked, imagine being appreciated more outside your own country than within.
Suspect baird will get a chance given his ability to play 6, if he goes well in remaining 6 nations off the bench he is the prime candidate for a world Cup squad place.

[big mervyn]

Nigel has spoken.

Definitely a red card.
Lowe definitely in touch for the try.
The tackle on Lowe is a "dabateable grey area". Nige says there is an argument that the winger was trying to get underneath Lowe to put him into touch. Equally you could argue also that there is an illegal shoulder charge. We'll never know the decision as Barnes didn't bother his hole looking at it (Nige didn't say that last bit ).

I still maintain that you can get away with stuff 1m from the tryline that would not be allowed in any other area of the pitch.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

The bit I was referring to is when ref's take the easy option of giving the try just because the player has managed to ground the ball despite foul play, and not giving the penalty try sanction the foul play deserves.

Lowe was diving for the corner, he was not going to miraculously recover his feet and run around to dot down under the posts. Therefore not possible to award a penalty try in such circumstances.

FWIW - I think there was enough arm involved in the tackle to rule out a shoulder charge.

BTW - why is not called a 'Penalty Goal' now?

Surely in the event of foul play, the criteria for a pen try is: remove the defender completely from the equation then determine whether there is another covering defender who could have prevented the score. If Lowe had not been tackled in that manner he would never have been in touch. Is being in a position to dot down under the posts a determining factor?

You may be correct about the tackle but it should have been looked at.

You are correct about the awarding of a penalty try Merv. Whether the player would have dotted in the corner or behind the posts is immaterial.

I just happen to disagree on whether there was an attempted wrap or just a shoulder charge.

Point 1 above is fact. Point 2 above is opinion. I'm happy to disagree with BR's opinion in this case, although as a general rule I always respect his opinion.

Just as I respect BR.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

The bit I was referring to is when ref's take the easy option of giving the try just because the player has managed to ground the ball despite foul play, and not giving the penalty try sanction the foul play deserves.

Lowe was diving for the corner, he was not going to miraculously recover his feet and run around to dot down under the posts. Therefore not possible to award a penalty try in such circumstances.

FWIW - I think there was enough arm involved in the tackle to rule out a shoulder charge.

BTW - why is not called a 'Penalty Goal' now?

Surely in the event of foul play, the criteria for a pen try is: remove the defender completely from the equation then determine whether there is another covering defender who could have prevented the score. If Lowe had not been tackled in that manner he would never have been in touch. Is being in a position to dot down under the posts a determining factor?

You may be correct about the tackle but it should have been looked at.

Take out the defender completely - Lowe is still flying through the air towards the corner

The only reason a ref can award a PT is if the foul prevents a try being scored - clearly it did not, or if it prevents a try being scored closer to the posts (hence being able to dot down under the posts is the determining factor here)

But for me there was no foul play

That is not my understanding of the criteria for a penalty try, but if you show me your working out, I'm open to persuasion that there is a miniscule chance I am wrong.

You are correct in that a penalty try should be awarded if a defender uses foul play to prevent a try.

In my opinion the correct sequence of events should have been,

1. Did Lowe score a legitimate try in the corner? No - foot in touch!
2. Was there foul play by defender? Yes - in my opinion, although i respect your right to disagree (and be wrong)
3. Did that foul play prevent Lowe from scoring a legitimate try? - yes, it forced his foot into touch.

Ergo, by 3 above, the award of a penalty try and a yellow card are justified.

Clearly Barnes disagreed with me on 1 above, so penalty try doesn't come into his way of thinking. It's not my fault he got that wrong though.

Just as he got the colour of card wrong for the dangerous assault on Rob Herring's head - as justified by a citing commissioner and disciplinary panel.

Two errors in the one match - but I still rate Barnsie as one of the best referees in the business right now.

If only our players could go through a match making just two errors.