Who will decide

[stickinout]

Sent this to the BoI media centre.

‘I am astonished and dismayed that the Bank of Ireland has issued a public statement confirming that it has interfered in an internal review process within the IRFU and Ulster Rugby which may result in employees losing their jobs. It seems not only unwise but irresponsible and I would have thought leaves the company wide open to legal challenge and lawsuits from the employees’ legal representatives.

I am also astonished that the Bank of Ireland thinks it has any moral authority to adjudicate on moral issues after the moral fiasco of the tracker mortgage scandal which resulted in people being made homeless, and a cost to the bank (according to the public press) of 108 million euro. The word ‘hypocrisy’ comes to mind.

I am further astonished at the double standards displayed since the Bank has (as I understand it) 2 well-known Munster Rugby employees as brand ambassadors, but those 2 employees were involved in a very unsavoury sexual incident with a young lady, an incident which was well documented and publicised.

Perhaps it should be the IRFU and Ulster Rugby who should be questioning whether sponsorship by the Bank of Ireland is appropriate.’

All spot on. This is an unfortunate, but hardly unpredicted, turn of events. The sad fact of life is that if sponsors pull the plug on Ulster rugby we will not be able to exist. Now that the Bank of Ireland has opened the can of worms here, don't be surprised to see other sponsors do the same. It is looking increasingly that Jackson/Olding may be in a lose/lose situation, despite legal rights etc..

This action will also encourage the feminist network and others to keep interested in pressuring organisations to cut the lads. I wouldn't be surprised it they have already targeted BofI with emails, etc.

[Snipe Watson]

Sent this to the BoI media centre.

‘I am astonished and dismayed that the Bank of Ireland has issued a public statement confirming that it has interfered in an internal review process within the IRFU and Ulster Rugby which may result in employees losing their jobs. It seems not only unwise but irresponsible and I would have thought leaves the company wide open to legal challenge and lawsuits from the employees’ legal representatives.

I am also astonished that the Bank of Ireland thinks it has any moral authority to adjudicate on moral issues after the moral fiasco of the tracker mortgage scandal which resulted in people being made homeless, and a cost to the bank (according to the public press) of 108 million euro. The word ‘hypocrisy’ comes to mind.

I am further astonished at the double standards displayed since the Bank has (as I understand it) 2 well-known Munster Rugby employees as brand ambassadors, but those 2 employees were involved in a very unsavoury sexual incident with a young lady, an incident which was well documented and publicised.

Perhaps it should be the IRFU and Ulster Rugby who should be questioning whether sponsorship by the Bank of Ireland is appropriate.’

All spot on. This is an unfortunate, but hardly unpredicted, turn of events. The sad fact of life is that if sponsors pull the plug on Ulster rugby we will not be able to exist. Now that the Bank of Ireland has opened the can of worms here, don't be surprised to see other sponsors do the same. It is looking increasingly that Jackson/Olding may be in a lose/lose situation, despite legal rights etc..

This action will also encourage the feminist network and others to keep interested in pressuring organisations to cut the lads. I wouldn't be surprised it they have already targeted BofI with emails, etc.

We know what the BofI have said to the press. We don't know what they have said to UR/IRFU.
This situation is a mess and getting out of it will require some chicanery from everyone involved.
I'll predict:
BofI express concern this week. Then after the result of the review, BofI are happy that UR/IRFU have carried out a robust review and taken steps to ensure that there is no repeat...players are receiving training....new rigorous code of conduct...suspended until the end of the season...no place for such attitudes in rugby.
Everybody has to get out of this with the minimum of damage.
I remain convinced if the wassapp3 were going to be canned, it would have happened already.

[Jackie Brown]

Sent this to the BoI media centre.

‘I am astonished and dismayed that the Bank of Ireland has issued a public statement confirming that it has interfered in an internal review process within the IRFU and Ulster Rugby which may result in employees losing their jobs. It seems not only unwise but irresponsible and I would have thought leaves the company wide open to legal challenge and lawsuits from the employees’ legal representatives.

I am also astonished that the Bank of Ireland thinks it has any moral authority to adjudicate on moral issues after the moral fiasco of the tracker mortgage scandal which resulted in people being made homeless, and a cost to the bank (according to the public press) of 108 million euro. The word ‘hypocrisy’ comes to mind.

I am further astonished at the double standards displayed since the Bank has (as I understand it) 2 well-known Munster Rugby employees as brand ambassadors, but those 2 employees were involved in a very unsavoury sexual incident with a young lady, an incident which was well documented and publicised.

Perhaps it should be the IRFU and Ulster Rugby who should be questioning whether sponsorship by the Bank of Ireland is appropriate.’

All spot on. This is an unfortunate, but hardly unpredicted, turn of events. The sad fact of life is that if sponsors pull the plug on Ulster rugby we will not be able to exist. Now that the Bank of Ireland has opened the can of worms here, don't be surprised to see other sponsors do the same. It is looking increasingly that Jackson/Olding may be in a lose/lose situation, despite legal rights etc..

This action will also encourage the feminist network and others to keep interested in pressuring organisations to cut the lads. I wouldn't be surprised it they have already targeted BofI with emails, etc.

We know what the BofI have said to the press. We don't know what they have said to UR/IRFU.
This situation is a mess and getting out of it will require some chicanery from everyone involved.
I'll predict:
BofI express concern this week. Then after the result of the review, BofI are happy that UR/IRFU have carried out a robust review and taken steps to ensure that there is no repeat...players are receiving training....new rigorous code of conduct...suspended until the end of the season...no place for such attitudes in rugby.
Everybody has to get out of this with the minimum of damage.
I remain convinced if the wassapp3 were going to be canned, it would have happened already.

Unless they are playing hard ball, especially PJ, to get a decent financial settlement to go away.

LF rumour an announcement will be on Saturday. If they turfed them before Friday's game there is a risk of serious resentment being shown to the WhatsApp hate mob who will be in attendance. So hold off until then. Would make sense. If they were to stay I'd say we'd have heard by now so as to get their little protests out of the way in one go.

I'm resigned to losing PJ and SO. Gilroy to stay and some respect training being made compulsory. I hope Bryn plays hard ball with regards to ££££ though, because any decent flyhalf can name their price.

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[Dave]

Not sure how Gilroy could escape the same fate as PJ/SO. They can't possibly hold a trial in which they were acquitted against them.

[Jackie Brown]

Not sure how Gilroy could escape the same fate as PJ/SO. They can't possibly hold a trial in which they were acquitted against them.

They may choose to leave 'on their own accord'.

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[twiglet]

I find it really sad that the hashtag brigade can wield such power. They are indifferent to the rule of law, they have an agenda and are organised and able to put so much pressure on media organisations, companies and individuals.

The protestors seem to thrive off each other and getting 'likes' on their social media posts means the world to them. Where is society going when two lads can have their lives ruined, potentially, because of some PRIVATE messages These messages were not posted on Facebook or Twitter they were private - not intended for anyone else. We are one step away from the hashtag thought police.

The next step may be that ALL the provinces players will have to have their phones checked for inappropriate messages to ensure they satisfy Bank of Ireland's moral code. BofI managers should probably start by looking at themselves.

How many of the protestors have checked the phones of their own family. How many can say that they haven't sent messages that they wish they hadn't sent. Paddy and Stuart have apologised - let them get back to playing for Ulster and Ireland.

The hashtag brigade will ruin society - someone has to stand up to them.

If UR had let the boys resume play immediately after the trial this would probably all be over by now. By delaying the decision it is giving the protestors more encouragement and a realisation that they are managing to achieve something.

Where is our CEO? Sort this out. Get a backbone and stand up to this cyber bullying.

[Dave]

Not sure how Gilroy could escape the same fate as PJ/SO. They can't possibly hold a trial in which they were acquitted against them.

They may choose to leave 'on their own accord'.

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Who would blame them really...

[Bart S]

I agree with Baggy and as i said earlier this week i expect the ultimate outcome here to be that none of the 3 will play for Ulster again.

Snipe’s post earlier was pretty much spot on. People can go on about what they see as the legal injustice of this going to trial and private messages being aired and used to discipline players but the reality is that these are out there and have offended/disgusted many people, who see Jackson and Olding as showing no regard for females. That per se cannot be retracted.Again whether biased reporting or not there are real concerns regarding this being felt by a sizeable number of people.

If the IRFU have any desire to keep these players in light of this then they need to provide additional disciplinary measures and also engage with some of the groups who are unhappy about the situation and show they are serious about addressing their concerns. The 3 Players banned for a few more months and a gender equality/respect programme put in place which is compulsory for ALL players at the provinces for starters and content shared with some of these groups. Also a clear conduct code highlighting that any player indulging in any such derogatory messages which come to light will be dismissed.

People can vent ire at the PSNI, the girl, the media, the sponsors or whoever else they may wish to , but the reality here is that the perception of these guys is bad amongst many people and certainly enough for the IRFU to take this very seriously. Gilroy and Jackson could pick up decent contracts elsewhere i am sure but ulster and possibly ireland will suffer.

[Bart S]

Not sure how Gilroy could escape the same fate as PJ/SO. They can't possibly hold a trial in which they were acquitted against them.

+1

[Bart S]

Not sure how Gilroy could escape the same fate as PJ/SO. They can't possibly hold a trial in which they were acquitted against them.

They may choose to leave 'on their own accord'.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Who would blame them really...

In pj and olding’s case i would agree. I see Gilroy as being different as he has not had the whole rape accusation and the risk of a prison sentence hanging over him for so long.

I would say if Gilroy was disciplined but kept on but the other 2 were binned many people who want the players dismissed would accept that. Of course as Dave points out, you can’t differentiate the punishment because of the trial and their acquittals.

[Dave]

Press conference today @ 4pm allegedly

Decision time

From a semi reliable source

Heinz?

[Snipe Watson]

Unless they are playing hard ball, especially PJ, to get a decent financial settlement to go away.

LF rumour an announcement will be on Saturday. If they turfed them before Friday's game there is a risk of serious resentment being shown to the WhatsApp hate mob who will be in attendance. So hold off until then. Would make sense. If they were to stay I'd say we'd have heard by now so as to get their little protests out of the way in one go.

You could be right, but I see this the other way around. There is no mileage for the IRFU in delaying if they are going to be dismissed.
Get them out the door, no protest tomorrow night, no negative press coverage, no issues with sponsors. That would be the clean and easy way out for the IRFU.

I'm resigned to losing PJ and SO. Gilroy to stay and some respect training being made compulsory. I hope Bryn plays hard ball with regards to ££££ though, because any decent flyhalf can name their price.

Again, I disagree. If one goes, they all go, unless one of them wants to go, which I doubt. They are all in exactly the same situation. As far as this review goes, the trial never happened. The trial muddies the waters in the court of public opinion, but in the legal arena, the trial is gone, done and dusted.
This review is an HR matter based on employment law and their contracts. It's about the messages and only the messages. If Gilly is cleared, but Paddy and Stu are canned. They have a slam dunk case of being victimised because they were tried and acquitted.
The IRFU cannot allow uninformed public discourse to impinge on the review. They have to do what is legally correct. I strongly suspect KRW Law will fight them all the way to the European Courts if they have to. I also think it's possible that heads are going to roll at PPS, PSNI and BBCNI before this thing is finally put to bed. The criminal case is over, but the aftermath hasn't even begun yet.

[Jackie Brown]

There is the risk that the IRFU turf them and believe that draws a line under it. Then 6 months down the line something is posted by or screenshot from another player which the mob don't like. Then it looks like an institutional problem. The mob won't be happy with simply destroying the WhatsApp 3. They'll be looking for anything else to keep this in the headlines front and center.

The best option is probably to reprimand them, get them working for crisis center and woman's charities. Back playing in August. A redemption story. That may be too much like hard work though for the IRFU who probably are dying to cut them lose and I can see PJ and SO wanting to get as far away from this goldfish bowl as they can.

I'm setting myself up for the worst.

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[Snipe Watson]

There is the risk that the IRFU turf them and believe that draws a long under it. Then 6 months down the line something is posted by or screenshot from another player which the mob don't like. Then it looks like an institutional problem. The mob won't be happy with simply destroying the WhatsApp 3. They'll be looking for anything else to keep this in the headlines front and center.

If they are stupid enough to think that, Kevin Winters will advise them of the error of their ways.

The best option is probably to reprimand them, get them working for crisis center and woman's charities. Back playing in August. A redemption story. Thatay be toouch like hard work though for the IRFU who probably are dying to cut them lose and I can see PJ and SO wanting to get as far away from this goldfish bowl as they can.

Something like that is likely to be part of an agreed punishment and yes they may just want to get out of Dodge altogether.

I'm setting myself up for the worst.

I share your pain, but stay strong brother.

[Deraless]

If any get binned I hope they make millions out of this, both on and off the pitch, the shìt they've had to cope with.

As things go on I have to confess the attitude of certain sections in this is actually making my views more polarised rather than helping.

If they think they can start to try to run my life by shouting any reasonable argument down with lies and propaganda they can swivel.

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