Who will decide

[Rooster]

Mark Simpson on the teatime news sand an end to the review is expected 'soon'.

Feck he must be reading here too much if he has discovered the "soon" word

[BaggyTrousers]

Does that mean that you think Dara lied?

I don't see why the two need to be mutually exclusive? it's perfectly possible for multiple people to tell their own version or recollection of the truth and for there still to be significant differences.

There were no winners in this case and do it's nature some of the murk and inconsistencies are unfortunately going to hang over everyone involved for a long time. The jury has made it's ruling based on the evidence presented to it and as such I feel everyone should be entitled to try and get on with their lives as best they can. As such I think that publicly casting aspersions in the direction of the girl is more or less the equal and opposite of those who continuing to proclaim the guilt of the men acquitted.

I will cast many nasturtiums given spring is apparently almost sprung. You may wonder if the complainant mightn't have been telling the truth...............I don't, I believe she probably parrotted many of the same lines in her previous episode and I fervently believe that she was not raped, further, I very much doubt she actually believes her only lines/lies.

For those inclined to believe her, if only in so far as she may vaguely have recalled something happened she was unhappy with, a couple of simple questions:

1) you do understand that an eyewitness to a rape is comparatively rare? As such the evidence of the eyewitness is almost certainly crucial. We know that evidence in terms of her not believing she witnessed a rape, that she was apparently the only sober person in the house, that she was asked by Paddy if she wanted to join in and that she has subsequently declined "kiss & tell" money for "her story".

Every bit of that suggests her testimony was the most reliable of those in the house, it also hints at her good character.

2) assuming you do not doubt her evidence in any material way, ask yourself how likely it is that a rapist would invite someone her apparently did not know before that evening to join him in raping someone. I cannot fathom how that is not front and centre of the debate. A rapist asking a woman to join him in a rape? Quite frankly, go away to fu'ck with your stupidity if you even consider that a remote possibility.

And with those two simple points, my defence of the non-rapists rests. Rape my hole, the young lady was a stranger to the truth in my opinion. aka she lied.

[BaggyTrousers]

BR is suggesting that the complainant is being truthful; also Dara is telling the truth.

How can this be since their versions of events are different.

Her eyewitness, factual evidence contradicted Jackson's more than it did the complainant's.

So by your logic, either Jackson or Dara were telling porkies.

Her opinion and interpretation of those eyewitness facts were at odds with the complainant; but those things do not have to be mutually exclusive.

You are so right BR, they don't have to be, any fu'cktard should understand that, the fact is they are in this case, don't have to be, just are.

[BaggyTrousers]

I'm seriously surprised that we haven't seen progress on this review. Nobody seems to have any sense of a timeline or end date.
I was clearly wrong with my prediction of a choreographed series of announcements early this week.
The whole thing is clearly perplexing the IRFU.

No, they aren't perplexed, they have decided and it's the axe, they are just afraid of the reaction and unsure how and when to declare the result.

Sponsors win, BT, VODAPHONE & The company who played no part in killing 71 people in Grenfell Tower, sure it was hardly their fault if the whole shooting match went up in flames because their insulation was not properly installed, not their fault at all, it was probably the tooth fairy.

[Cockatrice]

Maybe if the PSNI had spent longer with the key witness in this matter (Dara) they might have been able to put this to bed much earlier.... I understand she was interviewed for the sum total of 30 mins hence why her evidence was the subject of subsequent conversations between the PSNI and the PSS and they had to follow up much later. 30 fecking minutes they have taken longer to get a witness statement from me relating to a minor RTA.

On another somewhat related topic no wonder 60 officers were disciplined last year.. many for basic laziness in doing their job i.e. investigating a crime/taking statements etc although others for drugs, firearms offences and even assault on police.

[stickinout]

I'm seriously surprised that we haven't seen progress on this review. Nobody seems to have any sense of a timeline or end date.
I was clearly wrong with my prediction of a choreographed series of announcements early this week.
The whole thing is clearly perplexing the IRFU.

No, they aren't perplexed, they have decided and it's the axe, they are just afraid of the reaction and unsure how and when to declare the result.

Sponsors win, BT, VODAPHONE & The company who played no part in killing 71 people in Grenfell Tower, sure it was hardly their fault if the whole shooting match went up in flames because their insulation was not properly installed, not their fault at all, it was probably the tooth fairy.

If that's the case Baggy, then why the wait? The reaction from Ulster fans will be as bad in a month as it would be this week, no? They might try to hide it in the middle of the wendyball World Cup but probably not..... I think if the decision had been made, they'd be cut by now IMO.

[Rooster]

Maybe if the PSNI had spent longer with the key witness in this matter (Dara) they might have been able to put this to bed much earlier.... I understand she was interviewed for the sum total of 30 mins hence why her evidence was the subject of subsequent conversations between the PSNI and the PSS and they had to follow up much later. 30 fecking minutes they have taken longer to get a witness statement from me relating to a minor RTA.

On another somewhat related topic no wonder 60 officers were disciplined last year.. many for basic laziness in doing their job i.e. investigating a crime/taking statements etc although others for drugs, firearms offences and even assault on police.

I spent over 3 hours in Grosvenor Road one night because a guy who had 3 previous failed attempts came flying over the roof of the car in front of me at the old roundabout before they built the Westlink swimming pool. Their main concern was what colour the traffic lights were when he ran out, feck I only had a choice of 3 colours and I'm not red green colour blind.

[BR]

BR is suggesting that the complainant is being truthful; also Dara is telling the truth.

How can this be since their versions of events are different.

Her eyewitness, factual evidence contradicted Jackson's more than it did the complainant's.

So by your logic, either Jackson or Dara were telling porkies.

Her opinion and interpretation of those eyewitness facts were at odds with the complainant; but those things do not have to be mutually exclusive.

You are so right BR, they don't have to be, any fu'cktard should understand that, the fact is they are in this case, don't have to be, just are.

Witness A: What I saw looked to me like an apple.
Witness B: In my view it was a pear.

These are not mutually exclusive. Both witnesses may be telling the truth

One* is wrong, but that is a different thing.

*In fact both may be wrong and it was in fact a very middle-class pomegranate.

The assertion that a rapist would not ask another person to join in is predicated on the assumption that the rapist believed he was committing rape.

[Rooster]

As far as the press goes if they stay there will be a bit of crap first match back, if they chuck them out and they sign for a club that finishes up in Supa Dupa match v Leinster then the press will fire up yet again and it will happen year on year as it will be a novelty.
Well that's my opinion anyway.

[Russ]

BR is suggesting that the complainant is being truthful; also Dara is telling the truth.

How can this be since their versions of events are different.

Her eyewitness, factual evidence contradicted Jackson's more than it did the complainant's.

So by your logic, either Jackson or Dara were telling porkies.

Her opinion and interpretation of those eyewitness facts were at odds with the complainant; but those things do not have to be mutually exclusive.

You are so right BR, they don't have to be, any fu'cktard should understand that, the fact is they are in this case, don't have to be, just are.

Witness A: What I saw looked to me like an apple.
Witness B: In my view it was a pear.

These are not mutually exclusive. Both witnesses may be telling the truth

One* is wrong, but that is a different thing.

*In fact both may be wrong and it was in fact a very middle-class pomegranate.

The assertion that a rapist would not ask another person to join in is predicated on the assumption that the rapist believed he was committing rape.

Which is part 3 of the requirements for conviction

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[Deraless]

The vast majority of the independent evidence from the other 3 girls supports the boys. That evidence could be said to be based on opinion or your word against mine. Some evidence presented was black and white. Off the top of my head:

I "got separated" from my friends vs CCTV footage

I didn't know who they were vs "at a party in Paddy Jackson's house!" + you better pretend you didn't know them.

I was expecting my friends to follow vs "at a party in Paddy Jackson's house!"

Halfway up stairs I could see phone on bedside chair vs humans have not evolved x-ray vision

Harrison would have seen blood all over trousers vs blood not all over trousers.

Never slept a wink vs complete internet silence after arriving home until morning

I jumped up, pushed them away and ran out vs use of Uber app previously.

ie. Repeated small lies, nothing to do with subjectivity or interpretation.

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[damianmcr]

Deraless with the reporting restrictions lifted can the press not report this?

[Deraless]

Deraless with the reporting restrictions lifted can the press not report this?

None of that was restricted it was evidence the jury heard in court!

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[Deraless]

Deraless with the reporting restrictions lifted can the press not report this?

None of that was restricted, it was evidence the jury heard in court!

Why have they not reported it? Either they all fell asleep at exactly the same bits during the trial and missed it or they are all deliberately leaving bits out.

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[Liz Fraser]

The vast majority of the independent evidence from the other 3 girls supports the boys. That evidence could be said to be based on opinion or your word against mine. Some evidence presented was black and white. Off the top of my head:

I "got separated" from my friends vs CCTV footage

I didn't know who they were vs "at a party in Paddy Jackson's house!" + you better pretend you didn't know them.

I was expecting my friends to follow vs "at a party in Paddy Jackson's house!"

Halfway up stairs I could see phone on bedside chair vs humans have not evolved x-ray vision

Harrison would have seen blood all over trousers vs blood not all over trousers.

Never slept a wink vs complete internet silence after arriving home until morning

I jumped up, pushed them away and ran out vs use of Uber app previously.

ie. Repeated small lies, nothing to do with subjectivity or interpretation.

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And not forgetting going back in for your mobile phone to a place where you had been subjected to an attack for an hour.
Believe me when I say I have put myself in some dangerous situations in my time that I would do again.
However risking my well being for a phone I just can't buy into.
The only bit of evidence I really needed to hear.

Again this case for the defence just kept giving.
Normally it's one persons word against the other but there was so much to go on as has been demonstrated.

When the best prosecutions evidence for rape was that she took the morning after pill, it was the point of almost embarrassment.
Hopefully when the dust settles the people who thought this shambles was worthy of court will be held to account.