Any word on the Academy?

[Russ]

This isn't about picking size over skill. It's about trying to find guys who have the size so they can give them the skill. If they can't learn the skill, then they won't make playing for Ulster, just like the guys in schools rugby who have the skills but can't get the size.

Don't really get what's so difficult to grasp about that.

I think the RWC has just proven how invalid this strategy is

[Blow in]

Going on a bit of experience with the Ulster schools set up, neither Hooper or Pocock, would have been picked on size alone

[Setanta]

Personal opinion: I don't see how C. Ross is ahead of Taggart and Dow.

[ruckover]

That's where we fall down in comparison to Leinster and Munster. We sign the Rosses and Butterworths of this world. They at least take chances on their Academy players and sometimes it pays off.

And ironically the one time we do take a punt on an Academy player (AOC), it works we then relegate him to the UBL a season later.

[Setanta]

Yes, that's a wierdo as well.

[Cockatrice]

This isn't about picking size over skill. It's about trying to find guys who have the size so they can give them the skill. If they can't learn the skill, then they won't make playing for Ulster, just like the guys in schools rugby who have the skills but can't get the size.

Don't really get what's so difficult to grasp about that.

nightsoil.. when I referred to size I made mention of some sort of size matrix that appears to be used as an aid towards player selection. I profess to know nothing about it hence why I mentioned it and it was the father of a young player somewhere between Schools and Academy that mentioned it to me. His son according to him was a promising player with great ball skills dumped because he didn't hit the matrix for size so I asked the question size over skills…

Whilst the father may be blinded by it being his son and as some might say what would a father know well he is also a level II coach and whilst he may not hit the dizzy heights of a Niall Malone or Kiernan Campbell he nonetheless has an eye for coaching over 20 years. If he is asking the question about Ulsters apparent reliance on some size over skills issue I suspect that it is at least better founded than 70% the trivial pumped out here.

I don't know what size Pollock or Hooper had been at school but I wouldn't be surprised if Ulster overlooked at least one of them or told the other to bulk up and learn to play in the centre. I am not saying that Ulster are ignoring or dumping small players hell if that was true we wouldn't be having the smallp debate every other week I suspect that they (and presumably others) have some sort of size matrix into which they try and fit certain players.. I don't know hence why I raise to for debate.

The white paper for the future of Irish Rugby albeit a few years old now albeit it does take us to this world cup appears (according to baggy) to be reluctant to mention skills...

http://www.irishrugby.ie/downloads/IRFU ... Report.pdf

[BuckRogers]

Personal opinion: I don't see how C. Ross is ahead of Taggart and Dow.

Living in Switzerland I will presume you have not suffered the misfortune of having to watch either Dow or Taggart play. They make CRoss, of whom I am a long term critic, look to the manor born.

Both decent looking athletes insofar as they're both physically imposing in appearance however both are also soft, sluggish and slow. I could add a few more S adjectives in for alliteration purposes but you get the picture.

Winning Schools, U20 inter-pros etc is as irrelevant as winning schools cups in terms of bringing players of the requisite skills, size, athleticism and temperament into the professional set up. I don't know about size matrix's and whatever else but there needs to be identification of players around 16-18 for whom it can be estimated that they have some sort of capacity to be professionals with between 12-36 months intensive skills, conditioning and game time at A level and AIL.

It goes without saying that Ulster really need another batch of young players, in terms of quantity and relative qualit, that they have only managed twice in the last decade.

I'm referring to the year of Pollock, Cave, Faloon, Whitten, O'Connor, Anderson, McCrea. These guys broke through between 2005-2007 or so.

The subsequent arrival of guys like Henderson, Jackson, Marshall, Gilroy, Olding, McCall and Warwick is now approaching 4 years ago.

[Setanta]

Fair enough. I had seen them play for the Ireland U20s and could not believe they had suddenly lost those skills.

[Dan Dare]

Fair enough. I had seen them play for the Ireland U20s and could not believe they had suddenly lost those skills.

Seems to happen to a lot of players under the tutelage of our academy coaches.

[Bayern]

Taggart, Dow, Joyce are all rejects from the english system, very rarely do exiles really work out.
But given Ulster rugby's inability to produce it's own backrows, they were the best option available to Ulster in the hope they would develop. At this stage it's clear Joyce won't make it at ulster, while it's too early to say on Taggart/Dow.

Until Ulster's underage system starts producing some homegrown backrows, it's going to be a problem position. It's possible as it's obviously been done before.

[Dan Dare]

Taggart, Dow, Joyce are all rejects from the english system, very rarely do exiles really work out.
But given Ulster rugby's inability to produce it's own backrows, they were the best option available to Ulster in the hope they would develop. At this stage it's clear Joyce won't make it at ulster, while it's too early to say on Taggart/Dow.

Until Ulster's underage system starts producing some homegrown backrows, it's going to be a problem position. It's possible as it's obviously been done before.

Sam Arnold, Dan Touhy, Rob Herring......... Exiles I think. That's a pretty harsh generalisation.

[Bayern]

Touhy/Herring/Black were kept on by English clubs only to eventually leave. They weren't deemed not good enough at a younger age like Dow, Taggart, Joyce were.

Most exiles that come over at u20 level don't work out, Ruddock/Marmion the only ones that come to mind right now.

Sam Arnold turned down staying in England because he felt loyalty to Irish rugby for investing in him when england turned him down.

[scrum5]

Taggert, I believe won't make it, he's too slow.

[ChuckleBrothers]

Going on a bit of experience with the Ulster schools set up, neither Hooper or Pocock, would have been picked on size alone

Not sure where you're coming from there 'Blow in'...Yes, there is a target weight matrix (for obvious reasons)...but there are lads there who are above & below...

[Deraless]

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/ireland-u-20- ... ent/314932