Hook has a go at Payne

Snipe Watson · Post by **Snipe Watson** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:47 pm

BuckRogers wrote:
Snipe Watson wrote:
BaggyTrousers wrote:You know what Tazz, as I said I am happy for Ulster to get the likes of Payne & Herbst BUT in reality, the main criticism that most rugby pundits have of the project system is that in the main, it has produced more or less feck all. I'm tired tonight but I just can't bring to mind any project who has been a remote success for Ireland.

We/Ireland are producing young guys by the dozen - mainly Mexicans in fairness - who have at least as good a chance of making the grade as any project.

I said I reckoned Hook as about 90% right and the other 10% the was the problem that we would be disadvantaged compared to other countries, but on second thoughts, a project appears to have about a 10% chance of being a good quality international, so many have been utter dross.

Payne is a very talented player, I just think he sucks balls at 13, he is no Darren Cave & Darren is no BOD, just a very good Irish player who hasn't had a chance.( A chance being given a game in a full Irish selection, he has always played in a second string dominated team)
I suspect Stander followed by Herbst may break that pattern.
I think Stander is dreadfully average personally.

Herbst will be there or thereabouts but in Moore and Furlong leinster have two very good young TH's coming through.

Payne's a great player who is an average centre.

Strauss is a pretty good hooker as well to be fair to him, or certainly was on fire prior to his heart issues.

The only real Turkey of a Non-irish born Irish player was Bent and he was qualified through residency.

The project thing has only really been about for the last 5/6 years, officially anyway. It hasn't delivered us a World Class player yet but no real shitesters either to be fair.

If we play Payne at fB we might just have the first world class one.

Bent was IQ, sure he still had his duty free in his bag when he got capped.

BuckRogers · Post by **BuckRogers** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:52 pm

I meant ancestry don't know why I typed residency there :doh:

Snipe Watson · Post by **Snipe Watson** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:55 pm

Happens to us all Buck

ruckover · Post by **ruckover** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:31 am

Payne wouldn't be a wasted project if he stayed at full-back.

big mervyn · Post by **big mervyn** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:35 am

ruckover wrote:Payne wouldn't be a wasted project if he stayed at full-back.

He'd be wearing the No 23 shirt on merit and hopefully pushing Kearney. If Rob gets broke before the RWC this experiment might come back to haunt the IRFU.

Jackie Brown · Post by **Jackie Brown** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:21 am

big mervyn wrote:
ruckover wrote:Payne wouldn't be a wasted project if he stayed at full-back.
He'd be wearing the No 23 shirt on merit and hopefully pushing Kearney. If Rob gets broke before the RWC this experiment might come back to haunt the IRFU.

I reckon if Kearney pulled a muscle in training we'd see Felix 'Distinctly Average' Jones at fullback before Payne.

BaggyTrousers · Post by **BaggyTrousers** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:43 pm

Jackie Brown wrote:
big mervyn wrote:
ruckover wrote:Payne wouldn't be a wasted project if he stayed at full-back.
He'd be wearing the No 23 shirt on merit and hopefully pushing Kearney. If Rob gets broke before the RWC this experiment might come back to haunt the IRFU.
I reckon if Kearney pulled a muscle in training we'd see Felix 'Distinctly Average' Jones at fullback before Payne.

Quite possibly Jackie, the shame is I believe Payne to be an absolutely outstanding Fullback, as good if not better than Kearney & with a world class kicking game that Kearney can only dream of.

Kearney however has "status" within the team that means you have to be massively better to oust him & with nobody "demanding" the 13 jumper, it's easy to try to fit Jihadi Jared's square hole into a round space, keeping two very good players on board, even if one is badly out of his comfort zone.

Meanwhile back at the "project" player question, if you are a guy in NZ doing well in S15 but not getting near the NZ squad, you are on a low income, by European standards. The "project" status is a guarantee of an income substantially better and with a strong promise of a bigger national contract when time has been served. It is a good professional move for any guy who feels he is not going to be an All Black.

Ladies & Gentlemen, I give you Bundi Aki, stated ambition not to play for Connacht but to play for Ireland. Why? He probably had never heard of Connacht before an agent told him. Jihadi Jared is from the same stable, a soldier of fortune.

Harsh? Nope, realistic. If you come from the other side of the world and have no family relationship to the country, there is one reason and one reason only. Radix malorum cupiditas est.

ColinM · Post by **ColinM** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:05 pm

Kearney as you say is a nailed on starter for Ireland, senior player etc, however my view is that Kearney's big strength is under the high ball and that appeals more to Joe's percentage rugby than the other more artistic elements to Payne's game at 15.

You also have to query the logic from the IRFU perspective or investing so much money in the likes of Herbst and Stander when there are alternatives queuing up for a game at Leinster. If the national team is indeed the be all and end all then 14 out of 20 forwards don't need to be playing for one team.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:36 pm

I'm sick of seeing Rab Kearney run sideways and then sidestep into a forward.

Rooster · Post by **Rooster** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:57 pm

Dave wrote:I'm sick of seeing Rab Kearney run sideways and then sidestep into a forward.

He has that move down to perfection though, can't think of anyone who is near his standard at that

big mervyn · Post by **big mervyn** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:37 pm

Rooster wrote:
Dave wrote:I'm sick of seeing Rab Kearney run sideways and then sidestep into a forward.
He has that move down to perfection though, can't think of anyone who is near his standard at that

Jihad tends to beat men running from deep. Not so much from 13 though.

Rooster · Post by **Rooster** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:52 pm

big mervyn wrote:
Rooster wrote:
Dave wrote:I'm sick of seeing Rab Kearney run sideways and then sidestep into a forward.
He has that move down to perfection though, can't think of anyone who is near his standard at that
Jihad tends to beat men running from deep. Not so much from 13 though.

Russ · Post by **Russ** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:59 pm

Rooster wrote:
Dave wrote:I'm sick of seeing Rab Kearney run sideways and then sidestep into a forward.
He has that move down to perfection though, can't think of anyone who is near his standard at that

Luke Fitzgerald also has the flashy big sidestep to nowhere

BaggyTrousers · Post by **BaggyTrousers** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:28 pm

Russ wrote:
Rooster wrote:
Dave wrote:I'm sick of seeing Rab Kearney run sideways and then sidestep into a forward.
He has that move down to perfection though, can't think of anyone who is near his standard at that
Luke Fitzgerald also has the flashy big sidestep to nowhere

Would that be the least productive wing in rugby history - 27 caps scored twice in one game against a weakened Italy in the round 5 contest?????

That him?? A useless fecker with a great opinion of himself?? Like t1ts on a boar?? Brain & feet don't work together?? That him?

Russ · Post by **Russ** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:33 pm

BaggyTrousers wrote:
Russ wrote:
Rooster wrote:
Dave wrote:I'm sick of seeing Rab Kearney run sideways and then sidestep into a forward.
He has that move down to perfection though, can't think of anyone who is near his standard at that
Luke Fitzgerald also has the flashy big sidestep to nowhere
Would that be the least productive wing in rugby history - 27 caps scored twice in one game against a weakened Italy in the round 5 contest?????

That him?? A useless fecker with a great opinion of himself?? Like t1ts on a boar?? Brain & feet don't work together?? That him?

Did he not throw 2 interceptions in that game too?

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