All Blacks Vs Ireland Take III

[Shan]

Shan don't see it that way

Dk is not the sort to go on tour with only one 12 and five 13s -- BoD Earls Mcfadden Cave and Trimble (granted its some time since Trimble played 13 for Ireland but he has done so) and 4 wings Trimble Earls Zebo and Mcfadden.

My take is he wanted to play BoD at 12 ( D'Arcy having shown in the previous 6Ns he is starting to lose pace) and Earls at 13 .

The 6Ns and the first test confirmed that Earls defence at 13 leaves much to be desired in fact he is a defensive liability because he lacks disipline and BoD like D'Arcy is losing pace to cover the mistakes and gaps left by Earls. At 13 BoD can act as the defensive general and maintain a disiplined drift defence he couldn't do it at 12. Cave is strictly a 13 and provided Earls and BoD were injury free-- was never going to feature on the team on this tour.

Thus I believe the options at 12 as they went on the plane were seen as D'Arcy and BoD ,BoD being 1 choice .

McFadden is not considered a centre by DK and really hasn't played wing sufficently to be considered an International

If only Trimble LOOKEDmore secure in defence, I honestly don't believe Mcfaddens is any better playing on the wing but it looks it. because on his game in attack Trimble is without doubt one of the most intelligent backs in Ireland.

You are saying exactly what I am saying but in a slightly different way. DK showed in the first test he considered BOD at 12...then realised it didn't work, turned to his only actual 12 on tour who would have played again this week but for injury....learnt the valuable lesson about playing a 12 and turned to Wallace. This is what I am saying. This is what you are saying except for the learning the lesson bit.

[Shan]

Darren Cave gets the last 10mins in a rout and so that's enough, he had his chance to prove himself and did'nt make the most of the opportunity.

Yes because Cave should be ahead of BOD. The key to beating NZ is not playing BOD. Feck it is so easy I don't know why we didn't think of it before.

[Shan]

This attempt to find a grand, unifying strategy in DK's selections is amusing There isn't one of course - he appears to have, formally or otherwise, selected his squad shortly after the 6 Nations. There's no other justification I can think of for the selection of Zebo, or the inclusion of ROG and DOC for example, in the light of what happened in the rest of the club season. And even though his rationale lacked coherency - 'you don't experiment in NZ, except you do with Zebo, except you don't with ROG, except you do with Fitzpatrick... etc' - he knew that by including Zebo and POM Farrelly & Co would be breathless with excitement at the 'freshness' and 'daring' of the selection.

He tried out a centre combo which was a chancy selection by pairing Earls with BOD. It didn't work. Such is the way it goes. At least he found out that moving BOD to 12 is not an option..or shouldn't be anyway going forward. Every moron in the country was shouting for BOD to be moved to 12 and just like most of what they shout for they were wrong. DK isn't the first coach to have to find things like this out the hard way.

Fitzpatrick's selection wasn't an experiment. Ross couldn't play because of injury. I'm sure you know this so why the trick-playing...as if I didn't know.

POM was included in the 6N so again some playful shíte from yourself.

Why would experiment at 10 with players who barely have H Cup experience never mind international gametime when there is no need to. As it turned out this call was spot on as ROG has done well when called upon.

So: the most in-form Irish 12 doesn't make the squad as one of 5 centres; the guy picked as first choice in the centre in the first game, fit again for the third game, is stuck on the wing, while the guy who didn't make the squad parachutes into the starting team at 12; Zebo is first choice on the wing for the first game, he has now disappeared from view.

The most in form 12 was there. He's the one who won the H Cup. He's now injured and Wallace has been called up. All very reasonable.

The Earls-BOD experiment didn't work but it was worth a shot to try and get extra pace into midfield. Again very reasonable to now have learned from that in an attempt to win this 3rd test rather than setting foundations for the future.

Meanwhile: Henry, one of the most consistent Irish back row performers has yet to be seen, while POM, woeful in the first game, is the go-to guy when Heaslip gets injured; Murray, one of the biggest impediments to Ireland playing more progressive, front-foot rugby is untouchable; DOC, the man who puts the 'unseen' into 'work', is the guy we spring from the bench when we need to step things up; and on 55 minutes, come rain or shine, regardless of what's happening in the match, ROG comes on.

It's very clear that we're dealing with a guy who doesn't have a clear vision or strategy for Ireland, so it's fruitless to try to impute one...

I think Henry wasn't fit so wasn't considered for the first game. I have an open mind on this one though as I do think Henry should have been on the bench for the second game to give him a chance to impress. The thing is he would never get ahead of SOB and Heaslip as POM wouldn't. Given McLaughlin's performance last week it would have been insane to leave him out. So only Heaslip's injury has opened the door for POM to start, rightly or wrongly ahead of Henry. The last time Henry played for Ireland A he was very poor which may be a factor in DK's selections.


The clear vision on this tour is to win the 3rd test after the near miss last week.

[Meg The Lab]

Has beagle been sighted at any stage or did he get lost on the baggage carousel when they arrived ?

Aye.......Aaron and Paul have been comparing notes at the 5'8" Club downtown all week.

Very disappointing as Rooster says & UR will be the ones to suffer in the long run.............
.........and I firmly believe Chris woud have been on the same carousel had injury to others
not played it's hand.

Apparently Small Paul has been spoted at one of those dwarf throwing contests.

[Shan]

Apparently Small Paul has been spoted at one of those dwarf throwing contests.

Maybe that is how Heaslip damaged his hand. Fecking Ulster players are to blame for our injuries now as well.

[rumncoke]

No Shan

the fact is he has an opportunity to try the BoD /earls partnership again and has opted out which in my book suggests not just that he realises it doesn't work but that he no longer see Earls as a centre of first choice now or possibly ever .

The lord be praised as they say in some parts-- if true -- because Earls is not a centre he like to be but he like our friend NoC is still an undeveloped talent wasted by bad coaching as a school-boy and still plays like the coaches favorite --"" give it to Earls -- go on run boy -- run -- well done " Prefect for school -- but trains you for nothing .

[Shan]

No Shan

the fact is he has an opportunity to try the BoD /earls partnership again and has opted out which in my book suggests not just that he realises it doesn't work but that he no longer see Earls as a centre of first choice now or possibly ever .

The lord be praised as they say in some parts-- if true -- because Earls is not a centre he like to be but he like our friend NoC is still an undeveloped talent wasted by bad coaching as a school-boy and still plays like the coaches favorite --"" give it to Earls -- go on run boy -- run -- well done " Prefect for school -- but trains you for nothing .

Ah OK sorry I picked you up wrongly then.

I don't agree with this though as I don't think DK ever saw Earls as centre of first choice. He is on record as saying he sees Earls long term future at 13. BOD is first choice and always will be until he cannot play. I think he was trying to see if they could play together and found out they can't.

If he saw him as first choice he surely would have tried him with BOD before now.

[bazzaj]

So the up shot of it all who is brave enough to predict an Irish victory.
In the absence of Heaslip and expecting the ABS to sort out their scrum debacle from last week I am going for a home 36-18 win.
Looking forward to hear DLs score prediction in particular as I do not know if he thinks we will win or get stuffed.

[darkside lightside]

He tried out a centre combo which was a chancy selection by pairing Earls with BOD. It didn't work. Such is the way it goes. At least he found out that moving BOD to 12 is not an option..or shouldn't be anyway going forward. Every moron in the country was shouting for BOD to be moved to 12 and just like most of what they shout for they were wrong.

I don't think playing Earls and BOD in the centre is a disatrous idea, neither do I think that is what cost us in the first game - the humiliation in the first game was down to a devastating failure of tactics and defence, rather than the personnel per se. As an aside, every moron may have been calling for this in your part of the country - up here I can't remember many doing so!

Fitzpatrick's selection wasn't an experiment. Ross couldn't play because of injury. I'm sure you know this so why the trick-playing...as if I didn't know....POM was included in the 6N so again some playful shíte from yourself.

You miss the point - I'm not saying selecting young or inexperienced players is 'experimental', I'm all for it - the point is the inconsistency of his story. If he genuinely believed that it would be a grave error to 'experiment' in NZ - rather than simply something to say to the press to justify bringing ROG - then giving Zebo and Fitz their first caps shouldn't have been on the agenda; Buckley should have been out there

As it turned out this call was spot on as ROG has done well when called upon.

I'm glad someone else thinks so, as well as his mum, she's been awfully lonely saying that this past few weeks

The most in form 12 was there. He's the one who won the H Cup. He's now injured and Wallace has been called up. All very reasonable.

I think that, with all respect etc, it's fair to say that the overwhelming opinion, even on lf.com, was that Wallace was the form 12 last season - even in the final. FFS when even Thornley and Farrelly are saying so, it's pretty stark.

The last time Henry played for Ireland A he was very poor which may be a factor in DK's selections.

if DK is basing current selections on incomparable, scratch, one-off 'A' matches going on for 6 months ago (when incidentally, Henry wasn't demonstrably poor), I question his sanity, not just his judgement... Although while we're on the point: well the last 10 times DOC has played for Ireland, he's been very poor. And the last time POM started (his sub appearance was decent last week) he was very poor. In the first match, Murray was very poor. You'd think all of those would be a factor in DK's selections as well, no?

The clear vision on this tour is to win the 3rd test after the near miss last week.[/quote]

[rumncoke]

Shan that is the point

DK saw Earls as the long term 13 -- if that were the case then he should be starting this game at 13 .

The failure with the experiment was Earls not BoD -- BoD could play 12 and has done before with Trimble moving to 13 when D'Arcy was injured .

The holes and gaps in the defence were also present with D'Arcy playing inside Earls during the 6 nations Earls got away with playing 13 in the RWC because the opposition were poor not because he was defensively sound. Hopefully we have seen the last of Earls at 13 in a Green Jersey. Munster can play him there if they like but please not for Ireland.

Who suggested just because Carter is injured The ABs are weak at half back -- they were down to the fourth choice outhalf and still won the World Cup .

[bangorboy]

Word is that Small Paul got a job as an extra on 'The Hobbit' currently filming in NZ. Added bonus was they dont need to use CGI to make him smaller for the final film.

His screen name on the credits is ' Highpass Overyourhead'

[breakdown]

I can't see us winning it anyway. As someone else rightly said NZ half backs are not weak, they won the world cup with their fourth choice, who I would even consider their 5th choice as Nick Evans somehow didn't get a deserved call up

[Shan]

I don't think playing Earls and BOD in the centre is a disatrous idea, neither do I think that is what cost us in the first game - the humiliation in the first game was down to a devastating failure of tactics and defence, rather than the personnel per se. As an aside, every moron may have been calling for this in your part of the country - up here I can't remember many doing so!

Did you ask all the morons DL?

It didn't seem like a disastrous idea at the time. Certainly though things were an awful lot better last week. I said after the first game BOD will play better with Darcy beside him and he did. Now it may be down to tactics as you say. It was certainly down to the defence with Darcy-BOD being a proven top defensive combo.

You miss the point - I'm not saying selecting young or inexperienced players is 'experimental', I'm all for it - the point is the inconsistency of his story. If he genuinely believed that it would be a grave error to 'experiment' in NZ - rather than simply something to say to the press to justify bringing ROG - then giving Zebo and Fitz their first caps shouldn't have been on the agenda; Buckley should have been out there

I didn't hear him say that DL. I wouldn't disagree with you in general but I'll say again there's certain positions on the pitch where you can't experiment too much. I don't know if DK meant this.

As for the Buckley comment...go on ta feck. Fitz wasn't an experimental selection and you know it. Who else could have seriously been considered?

I'm glad someone else thinks so, as well as his mum, she's been awfully lonely saying that this past few weeks

What a gowl. ROG was excellent when he came on last week. The first game was a write-off anyway.

I think that, with all respect etc, it's fair to say that the overwhelming opinion, even on lf.com, was that Wallace was the form 12 last season - even in the final. FFS when even Thornley and Farrelly are saying so, it's pretty stark.

I threw that in just to see the response. Tá brón orm a chara.

if DK is basing current selections on incomparable, scratch, one-off 'A' matches going on for 6 months ago (when incidentally, Henry wasn't demonstrably poor), I question his sanity, not just his judgement... Although while we're on the point: well the last 10 times DOC has played for Ireland, he's been very poor. And the last time POM started (his sub appearance was decent last week) he was very poor. In the first match, Murray was very poor. You'd think all of those would be a factor in DK's selections as well, no?

I don't disagree with this. I just pointed out this maybe what DK is thinking. I certainly don't agree that form from one game a while back should determine a player's selection or otherwise, unless that player has looked so out of place it becomes difficult to select him. That is certainly not the case here. If it was he wouldn't be there at all.


What's the alternative to DOC? McCarthy maybe as he hasn't had any chance..... I know you think it should be Cullen there. Nothing will convince me that Cullen should be in an Ireland jersey.

[Shan]

Shan that is the point

DK saw Earls as the long term 13 -- if that were the case then he should be starting this game at 13 .

Depends on how we see long term. I would think of it as post-BOD and therefore this selection may not suggest DK is dispensing with that idea. He may be of course but I don't know what is in the mind of DK......It doesn't matter long term really anyway as DK will only be there for 1 more year as far as I know.

[Shan]

I see the bookmakers have Ireland at 7/1 to win and +15 on the handicap. So they think we will see a disimprovement this week in terms of the scoreline.

Really hoping the players can prove them wrong but hard to argue with the bookies. At 8.30 on Saturday I will believe that Ireland can win. Hopefully by 9.30 I'll still have those thoughts.