MAZE For the Record

[GerryO']

Gerry...........If you don't have the lotto numbers just say so!

I do, I just not tellin Aaron or Grumpy!

[browner]

Alienation is the last thing we need

[pwrmoore]

alright, more careful language needed

when it should be possible to make a decision that -won't- alienate a significant number of people who might bring more money into the organisation, then it would be a shame to make a decision that will do precisely that.

is that better?

It is my opinion that a ground share with Glentoran would not of necessity alienate any section of the population with the exception of those who are looking for excuses to help them feel alienated. Those who like to feel alienated will find find something to alienate them in almost every solutuion and are probably not worth the effort to keep on side - they probably wouldn't attend a match anyway.

Please note that I do not speak for anyone but myself, and I do not intend to imply that I have the inside track on the thoughts of any particular community, ethnic grouping, religion or voluntary/involuntary organisation.

[GerryO']

Aye, well, that's one of my opinions based on very little evidence.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Gerry...........If you don't have the lotto numbers just say so!

I do, I just not tellin Aaron or Grumpy!

Well with his OPINIONS, thats a £ saved for each of us then!

Or is it a €?

(can you tell that I don't do the lottery/lotto or whatever it is?)

[GerryO']

alright, more careful language needed

when it should be possible to make a decision that -won't- alienate a significant number of people who might bring more money into the organisation, then it would be a shame to make a decision that will do precisely that.

is that better?

It is my opinion that a ground share with Glentoran would not of necessity alienate any section of the population with the exception of those who are looking for excuses to help them feel alienated. Those who like to feel alienated will find find something to alienate them in almost every solutuion and are probably not worth the effort to keep on side - they probably wouldn't attend a match anyway.

Please note that I do not speak for anyone but myself, and I do not intend to imply that I have the inside track on the thoughts of any particular community, ethnic grouping, religion or voluntary/involuntary organisation.

Paul stop talking sense. Were organising a group hug here!!!!

[Cap'n Grumpy]

...... Those who like to feel alienated will find find something to alienate them in almost every solutuion and are probably not worth the effort to keep on side - they probably wouldn't attend a match anyway.

Please note that I do not speak for anyone but myself, and I do not intend to imply that I have the inside track on the thoughts of any particular community, ethnic grouping, religion or voluntary/involuntary organisation.

On this issue you can speak for me, Paul. I've seen it too many times on both so-called-sides of the community where people go several miles out of their way just to be offended by something they wouldn't have seen or heard if they had'nt gone looking for it.

[aarons]

...... Those who like to feel alienated will find find something to alienate them in almost every solutuion and are probably not worth the effort to keep on side - they probably wouldn't attend a match anyway.

Please note that I do not speak for anyone but myself, and I do not intend to imply that I have the inside track on the thoughts of any particular community, ethnic grouping, religion or voluntary/involuntary organisation.

On this issue you can speak for me, Paul. I've seen it too many times on both so-called-sides of the community where people go several miles out of their way just to be offended by something they wouldn't have seen or heard if they had'nt gone looking for it.

you won't be surprised to hear me say it, but I don't think a business like Ulster Rugby can afford to adopt the "themmuns will never change so that's that" line of thinking.

or to extend your logic, when the GAA finally open up their grounds to other sports, why don't we just have ulster rugby groundshare at Casement Park, ? Sure, there's plenty of unionists who'd never set foot in that part of west belfast, but we can't be changing our behaviour for them, can we?

[Cap'n Grumpy]

I don't see the linkage between what I wrote and your response.

What has my "logic" got to do with anything. What I wrote was a statement of opinion and expression of my own observations - there was no "logic" to be extended. I never even mentioned "themmuns"

(And just to be clear, my observations were not restricted to one "side" of the community either)

[aarons]

I don't see the linkage between what I wrote and your response.

What has my "logic" got to do with anything. What I wrote was a statement of opinion and expression of my own observations - there was no "logic" to be extended. I never even mentioned "themmuns"

(And just to be clear, my observations were not restricted to one "side" of the community either)

though i quoted you grumpy (sorry, slip of the mouse, wasn't thinking properly), the response wasn't directed specifically at you, just a general point towards those saying the glentoran thing would be good - or at least acceptable - for ulster rugby.

you were agreeing with paul's point, weren't you?

[Cap'n Grumpy]

I was agreeing with the point that there are some who will be offended by something no matter what is proposed or done - simply to oppose "themmuns" (to use your parlance) because they ARE themmuns!

Some may think we can't ignore such people, but I reckon we would be no better off and no worse off if we simply leave them out of the equation. It would be a waste of effort to try to accomodate them (whoever "them" may be), as they simply will not be accommodated.

[pwrmoore]

you won't be surprised to hear me say it, but I don't think a business like Ulster Rugby can afford to adopt the "themmuns will never change so that's that" line of thinking.

or to extend your logic, when the GAA finally open up their grounds to other sports, why don't we just have ulster rugby groundshare at Casement Park, ? Sure, there's plenty of unionists who'd never set foot in that part of west belfast, but we can't be changing our behaviour for them, can we?

You've missed my point entirely aaron. In my mind there isn't a significant group that I would consider to be "themmuns who will never change" There is however a very small minority from each of the two significant communities in our little corner of Ireland who will go out of their way to be offended at every opportunity. Those small minorities are not worth trying to convice otherwise (I see them as being a bit like the supporters of Play-offs ).

Unfortunately you haven't actually extended my logic, you've applied your preconception to my words and then extended your logic. In my experience, most people have no problem going to IKEA so a new Ground built close to IKEA in east Belfast would not of necessity exclude anyone. And even if it were shared with Glentoran I do not believe that most people are so entrenched in their views that they would transfer any distrust of Glentoran automatically to Ulster Rugby as a result.

Personally speaking I would have no problem with a groundshare at Casement. So why should anyone else object to a groundshare at Tillysburn?

[aarons]

you won't be surprised to hear me say it, but I don't think a business like Ulster Rugby can afford to adopt the "themmuns will never change so that's that" line of thinking.

or to extend your logic, when the GAA finally open up their grounds to other sports, why don't we just have ulster rugby groundshare at Casement Park, ? Sure, there's plenty of unionists who'd never set foot in that part of west belfast, but we can't be changing our behaviour for them, can we?

You've missed my point entirely aaron. In my mind there isn't a significant group that I would consider to be "themmuns who will never change" There is however a very small minority from each of the two significant communities in our little corner of Ireland who will go out of their way to be offended at every opportunity. Those small minorities are not worth trying to convice otherwise (I see them as being a bit like the supporters of Play-offs ).

Unfortunately you haven't actually extended my logic, you've applied your preconception to my words and then extended your logic. In my experience, most people have no problem going to IKEA so a new Ground built close to IKEA in east Belfast would not of necessity exclude anyone. And even if it were shared with Glentoran I do not believe that most people are so entrenched in their views that they would transfer any distrust of Glentoran automatically to Ulster Rugby as a result.

Personally speaking I would have no problem with a groundshare at Casement. So why should anyone else object to a groundshare at Tillysburn?

i guess the point i'm making is that i think the community of people who would object to a groundshare in that part of the city is bigger than you might imagine. it might be enough to stop some curious onlookers from making that step to becoming a fully fledged fan. which would be bad both in terms of finance, and in terms of UR being seen as a cross-community concern.

we've had the IKEA conversation on here before. i think there's a massive difference between sport and retail, there's not really any comparison there.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Slightly off topic, I know, but has anyone seen the car park at Ikea?

I've been in a few times now, (no comments please), and there are so many Dublin and other RoI number plates, I half expect to see the Garda on patrol when I drive out

(I haven't actually seen any PSNI close to Ikea either, which leads me to believe that those who come don't feel threatened .......... unless the polis are all in plain clothes with RoI number paltes on their otherwise unmarked cars)

[Cap'n Grumpy]

we've had the IKEA conversation on here before. i think there's a massive difference between sport and retail, there's not really any comparison there.

Maybe if we can get a bit of grunt into our front five, we can steamroller the Scarlets and then flog their "flat-pack"