Leinster v Ulster Mon Jan 1 5:15pm KO

[CIMANFOREVER]

Just read the discussion on Babbling Brook. Have to say, the Leinster fans' post match comments were very balanced. As you would expect, there were criticisms of Murphy and their own team but pretty much all the comments about Ulster were positive.

Fair play til D4 and his mates.

Agreed. All this ref bias is horlix. Murphy's just not a good ref. No bias- now Saffers TMO s are different gravy!

BB comments have been balanced but then they don't represent some of the Dubs turning up at OrDS and Aviva! Apoplexy always delicious with the Dub blow ins. Entitlement much? Lol.
We are more circumspect....

[CIMANFOREVER]

Frank once Ulster got a two try lead it was odds on Frank would penalise Ulster - Leinster into the corner for a try.

Paranoid nonsense.

The thing is to avoid giving him opportunity to penalise you and Ulster did that quite well .

The "thing is" to avoid giving any ref opportunity to penalise you - Ulster sometimes do that well, other times they don't. It's not something that is exclusive to Frank.

But take the last 3 minutes Ulster get the ball into the corner going for a try bonus and get penalised for crossing Leinster get a second penalty for a possible try bonus win and Byrne messes it up— hate to think what the outcome would have been if he hadn’t .

Ulster were penalised for the same offence Leinster were when he disallowed what would have been a second try for them to take the lead earlier in the game. That's not bias, that's consistency - applying the laws equally to both teams.
I note you don't criticise Frank for the second penalty at the end, but hate to think what might have happened if Byrne hadn't messed up. Well the fact is Byrne did mess up, Frank didn't influence that in any way, and Ulster won - end of. Literally.

... I think not ...

We know.

but to be honest he avoids making up laws to suit decisions which he seemed to do on occasions

Good to know that he avoids doing things that he seemed to do.

We all know that Frank aint the best referee in the business. Ergo there are better than him. But Frank aint the worst referee, not by a long way, which if we take off our Ulster against the rest of Ireland, we should be able to acknowledge. We've had some good results in recent years with him officiating, and I for one don't worry and start worrying before the match kicks off. He'll possibly prove me wrong before the end of the season by having a howler, but most refs have bad days, just as players have bad days but that is no reason to allege bias.

BTW, who was the ref when we beat Leinster at the RDS 2 years ago?
Ah, yes, it was Frank - that well known biased referee who does for Ulster every time.
And for the avoidance of doubt, that was sarcasm Rumn - just in case you thought I was coming round to your way of thinking.

A most apposite and considered response Cap'n. Bang on the nail!

[justinr73]

Man for man better is a stretch.

Cooney isn’t better than JGP, McCloskey isn’t better than Henshaw and Addison sure as hell isn’t better than JOB.

I wouldn’t swap TOB for the flaky Baloucoune either.

Luke Marshall is just back from an extended spell out as well.
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User avataroffshorerules
Seán Cronin
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Re: Leinster v Ulster RDS 1st January 2024 at 17:15
Post by offshorerules » December 30th, 2023, 10:35 am

I don't particularly rate Burns either so I'd rather have Prendergast too. I know he lacks experience at this level but heaps of talent.


These posts didn't age very well on Babbling Brook. Pride comes before a fall.

They’re a wild cocky lot these days. Was quite funny the last few years listening to them on the lead up to their finals/semi finals … all they had to do was turn up. In general though at the RDS they aren’t the worst bunch.

Massive 4 points for us as it probably wouldn’t have been factored in. Unfortunately, it only cancels out the atrocious Edinburgh result. Good result for the league. Lineout is/was farcical, opposition 5m line outs always result in easy try’s for them. Addison is done. Fair play Burns. I see Soper and not DMF was singled out by players for coming up with the winning game plan.

Which is hardly surprising given he’s the attack coach….

[Dave]

We need to talk about that Cooney wind adjusted conversion....

[big mervyn]

We need to talk about that Cooney wind adjusted conversion....

Doak's kicks at Rodney Parade(?) In atrocious conditions a couple of years ago would take some beating. He was aiming almost horizontal to the try line.

[big mervyn]

Full game currently on YouTube. Coverage starts at 3:35

https://www.youtube.com/live/hdJSLdNkrX ... ixRHeB5-2-

[CIMANFOREVER]

The Munster and Hairsprays results plus our own fell in our favour. A loss with no BP wouldve seen us plummet.

Interesting ref Soper...

[CIMANFOREVER]

Would like to watch tries again. Thought JGP joined the rolling maul try in the second half in the side and in front of the ball. Is that not illegal any more? Thought another of their tries a couple of guys broke off the maul and took out some Ulster defenders without the ball. But might have been the disallowed one.

I thought the same re JG-P but it was a close call. I'm not prepared top say ref got it wrong as it was a tight one.

As for their break-off maul taking out some of our defenders, it wasn't the disallowed one, and again I was shouting for that, but on re-watching, it was our defenders tackled them, not the other way round. Our players could safely have let them go, knowing that if they had the ball, their maul was illegal, or if they didn't have the ball, well, what's the point in tackling them? Just lacking in nous for that one, I'm afraid. I too lacked the nous to call it in real time, but then I'm not a prefessional rugy player and I am in my 60s so there's an excuse for me.

Truck n trailer

[CIMANFOREVER]

Lineouts need the hard yards put in seemingly along with the scrums. Sometimes beasting is the only way. As some of you have said, including myself- we over complicate, take stupid risks in atrocious weather and fail to revert to either shortened LO or banker flat 2. Maybe some of our cutting edge moves rely on 4/6 ball off the top and we're too rigid/ don't have a plan B to adjust as conditions dictate. The weather wasn't a surprise, not was Leinster's LO prowess so we should've had options to revert to. I would expect DF and Grant to have worked on that weakness assiduously, not the surprise it seems to be.

[Marco]

We need to talk about that Cooney wind adjusted conversion....

And his tackle on Sheahan, but on such evenings as yesterday, well done to them all. I’m not kneeling at the altar of billy just yet, but fair focks for that first half

[CIMANFOREVER]

See DFs promising European domination in BTel- at least he's not went global yet.

Consider that we were only 2 off our first choice pack, and bar Luke, our first choice back line....so I'll wait til the end of the season before I believe Dan's superlatives

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Would like to watch tries again. Thought JGP joined the rolling maul try in the second half in the side and in front of the ball. Is that not illegal any more? Thought another of their tries a couple of guys broke off the maul and took out some Ulster defenders without the ball. But might have been the disallowed one.

I thought the same re JG-P but it was a close call. I'm not prepared top say ref got it wrong as it was a tight one.

As for their break-off maul taking out some of our defenders, it wasn't the disallowed one, and again I was shouting for that, but on re-watching, it was our defenders tackled them, not the other way round. Our players could safely have let them go, knowing that if they had the ball, their maul was illegal, or if they didn't have the ball, well, what's the point in tackling them? Just lacking in nous for that one, I'm afraid. I too lacked the nous to call it in real time, but then I'm not a prefessional rugy player and I am in my 60s so there's an excuse for me.

Truck n trailer

No Truck-n-trailer - there was clear separation.

Truck-n-trailer has the trailer close behind but not with the required level of binding required for a maul and the truck blocking off any engagemnet with the trailer.

This was simply a couple of their forwards who detached from the maul, and our defenders were daft enough to tackle them, when they could safely have let them continue on their merry way and try to engage with the actual maul.

[CIMANFOREVER]

Would like to watch tries again. Thought JGP joined the rolling maul try in the second half in the side and in front of the ball. Is that not illegal any more? Thought another of their tries a couple of guys broke off the maul and took out some Ulster defenders without the ball. But might have been the disallowed one.

I thought the same re JG-P but it was a close call. I'm not prepared top say ref got it wrong as it was a tight one.

As for their break-off maul taking out some of our defenders, it wasn't the disallowed one, and again I was shouting for that, but on re-watching, it was our defenders tackled them, not the other way round. Our players could safely have let them go, knowing that if they had the ball, their maul was illegal, or if they didn't have the ball, well, what's the point in tackling them? Just lacking in nous for that one, I'm afraid. I too lacked the nous to call it in real time, but then I'm not a prefessional rugy player and I am in my 60s so there's an excuse for me.

Truck n trailer

No Truck-n-trailer - there was clear separation.

Truck-n-trailer has the trailer close behind but not with the required level of binding required for a maul and the truck blocking off any engagemnet with the trailer.

This was simply a couple of their forwards who detached from the maul, and our defenders were daft enough to tackle them, when they could safely have let them continue on their merry way and try to engage with the actual maul.

Need to watch it again Capn- saw the match only once- thanks to Mervyn's link will take a look. Either way, both are illegal blocking. Certainly your analysis suggests same, preventing clear line of sight to the core of the maul and the player in possession. Basically our tacklers should've stood and gesticulated the illegal blocking

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Would like to watch tries again. Thought JGP joined the rolling maul try in the second half in the side and in front of the ball. Is that not illegal any more? Thought another of their tries a couple of guys broke off the maul and took out some Ulster defenders without the ball. But might have been the disallowed one.

I thought the same re JG-P but it was a close call. I'm not prepared top say ref got it wrong as it was a tight one.

As for their break-off maul taking out some of our defenders, it wasn't the disallowed one, and again I was shouting for that, but on re-watching, it was our defenders tackled them, not the other way round. Our players could safely have let them go, knowing that if they had the ball, their maul was illegal, or if they didn't have the ball, well, what's the point in tackling them? Just lacking in nous for that one, I'm afraid. I too lacked the nous to call it in real time, but then I'm not a prefessional rugy player and I am in my 60s so there's an excuse for me.

Truck n trailer

No Truck-n-trailer - there was clear separation.

Truck-n-trailer has the trailer close behind but not with the required level of binding required for a maul and the truck blocking off any engagemnet with the trailer.

This was simply a couple of their forwards who detached from the maul, and our defenders were daft enough to tackle them, when they could safely have let them continue on their merry way and try to engage with the actual maul.

Need to watch it again Capn- saw the match only once- thanks to Mervyn's link will take a look. Either way, both are illegal blocking. Certainly your analysis suggests same, preventing clear line of sight to the core of the maul and the player in possession. Basically our tacklers should've stood and gesticulated the illegal blocking

TBH, I was doing my nut about the blocking, but Grumps Junior was the one who corrected me . . .

. . . and I've made it a personal aim to learn as much from him while he still knows it all.


. . . but for the avoidance of doubt, MUM will confirm that when we're on the terrace, he (Grumps Junior) is always right when he tells me why what I'm shouting at the ref is wrong. I still shout anyway.

[big mervyn]

I thought the same re JG-P but it was a close call. I'm not prepared top say ref got it wrong as it was a tight one.

As for their break-off maul taking out some of our defenders, it wasn't the disallowed one, and again I was shouting for that, but on re-watching, it was our defenders tackled them, not the other way round. Our players could safely have let them go, knowing that if they had the ball, their maul was illegal, or if they didn't have the ball, well, what's the point in tackling them? Just lacking in nous for that one, I'm afraid. I too lacked the nous to call it in real time, but then I'm not a prefessional rugy player and I am in my 60s so there's an excuse for me.

Truck n trailer

No Truck-n-trailer - there was clear separation.

Truck-n-trailer has the trailer close behind but not with the required level of binding required for a maul and the truck blocking off any engagemnet with the trailer.

This was simply a couple of their forwards who detached from the maul, and our defenders were daft enough to tackle them, when they could safely have let them continue on their merry way and try to engage with the actual maul.

Need to watch it again Capn- saw the match only once- thanks to Mervyn's link will take a look. Either way, both are illegal blocking. Certainly your analysis suggests same, preventing clear line of sight to the core of the maul and the player in possession. Basically our tacklers should've stood and gesticulated the illegal blocking

TBH, I was doing my nut about the blocking, but Grumps Junior was the one who corrected me . . .

. . . and I've made it a personal aim to learn as much from him while he still knows it all.


. . . but for the avoidance of doubt, MUM will confirm that when we're on the terrace, he (Grumps Junior) is always right when he tells me why what I'm shouting at the ref is wrong. I still shout anyway.

No longer having 20:20 vision is my excuse. Never ceases to amaze me what the boys around me claim they can see from 50m or more