Attempting to win a scrum against the head through out hooking the opposition is a waste of energy. It's more profitable to set your front row to shove. If you have a dominant scrum you are more likely to win a penalty by forgetting about hooking. Conversely, an inferior scrum will want to be set in order to squarely face the incoming pressure. For me, I still enjoy the scrummaging contest without the hooking aspect being competitive. Its a fair trade off imo.BR wrote:They tightened the application of the feeding laws 3 or 4 years ago (Remember? Rory was one of the few hookers who actually knew how to hook). It made almost no difference to the number of balls taken against the head, and arguably made the scrum less stable and caused more resets. But technically they are still the rules we are working under, including that hookers must hook.
I fear the IRB have fallen into the trap that criticism of how long a scrum takes to complete properly has prompted them to ignore the laws as long as the ball comes out and nobody gets hurt.
For me lineouts need to be addressed first. The ball should not be dead for this length of time. I'd actually like to see what would happen of they rebanned lifting. (Gut feeling it would be safer and more of a contest)
scrummaging..........whats the point?
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Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?
I have my own tv channel, what have you got?
Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?
Of course, but the current rule is you have to hook. The current interpretation of that rule is you don't have to hook.Dave wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:28 pmAttempting to win a scrum against the head through out hooking the opposition is a waste of energy. It's more profitable to set your front row to shove. If you have a dominant scrum you are more likely to win a penalty by forgetting about hooking. Conversely, an inferior scrum will want to be set in order to squarely face the incoming pressure. For me, I still enjoy the scrummaging contest without the hooking aspect being competitive. Its a fair trade off imo.BR wrote:They tightened the application of the feeding laws 3 or 4 years ago (Remember? Rory was one of the few hookers who actually knew how to hook). It made almost no difference to the number of balls taken against the head, and arguably made the scrum less stable and caused more resets. But technically they are still the rules we are working under, including that hookers must hook.
I fear the IRB have fallen into the trap that criticism of how long a scrum takes to complete properly has prompted them to ignore the laws as long as the ball comes out and nobody gets hurt.
For me lineouts need to be addressed first. The ball should not be dead for this length of time. I'd actually like to see what would happen of they rebanned lifting. (Gut feeling it would be safer and more of a contest)
Like you, I enjoy a scrum. But I think a lot of outsiders/backs don't really consider play to be continuing until the ball magically comes out the back.
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Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?
Arguably it's not.
The scrum is a way of restarting the match, so you could argue that the match hasn't restarted until the scrum is completed.
And yes, I know you could argue the match has restarted once the ball is fed, or even before it is fed if there is an offence before the ball is put into the scrum, but then you could argue in those scenarios that the scrum didn't restart the game which is what it is meant to do?
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Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?
Simple solution- stop the clock when a knock on is given - start the clock when the ball is fed into the scrum - if scrum needs to be reset stop the clock again
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Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?
I do think the hooking is more ceremonial. If the other side doesn't want to compete there can be no unfair advantage. The ball being rolled into the second row is probably an exaggeration anyway.BR wrote:Of course, but the current rule is you have to hook. The current interpretation of that rule is you don't have to hook.Dave wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:28 pmAttempting to win a scrum against the head through out hooking the opposition is a waste of energy. It's more profitable to set your front row to shove. If you have a dominant scrum you are more likely to win a penalty by forgetting about hooking. Conversely, an inferior scrum will want to be set in order to squarely face the incoming pressure. For me, I still enjoy the scrummaging contest without the hooking aspect being competitive. Its a fair trade off imo.BR wrote:They tightened the application of the feeding laws 3 or 4 years ago (Remember? Rory was one of the few hookers who actually knew how to hook). It made almost no difference to the number of balls taken against the head, and arguably made the scrum less stable and caused more resets. But technically they are still the rules we are working under, including that hookers must hook.
I fear the IRB have fallen into the trap that criticism of how long a scrum takes to complete properly has prompted them to ignore the laws as long as the ball comes out and nobody gets hurt.
For me lineouts need to be addressed first. The ball should not be dead for this length of time. I'd actually like to see what would happen of they rebanned lifting. (Gut feeling it would be safer and more of a contest)
Like you, I enjoy a scrum. But I think a lot of outsiders/backs don't really consider play to be continuing until the ball magically comes out the back.
I have my own tv channel, what have you got?
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Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?
Indeed - it's more usually fed to the back row ...
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Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?
Why doesn't the ref put it in....?
Discuss....
Discuss....
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Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?
Usually 'round the openside's left ankle if quick ball is required.
... maybe that is a slight exaggeration
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Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?
The 9 just keeps it. Walks round the back and spins it away.big mervyn wrote:Usually 'round the openside's left ankle if quick ball is required.
... maybe that is a slight exaggeration
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Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?
Sometimes scrummaging is more about forcing a penalty than simply winning the ball and restarting the game and that's a legitimate thing to do.
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Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?
The idea of "forcing a penalty" doesn't really sit well with me.solidarity wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:56 pm Sometimes scrummaging is more about forcing a penalty than simply winning the ball and restarting the game and that's a legitimate thing to do.
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Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?
I'm not thrilled either, Merv, but it is as legitimate as anything else within the laws of the game.
Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?
The penalty is the just desserts for a strong scrum. It is what makes it such a weapon if you have a good one.
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Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?
Spot on Dave. But there are not many sports which have a special base whose only purpose is to " force penalties" ........And as a consequence have players ( the front 3?) Whose purpose has become bringing about penalties.........if necessary by cheating?
Note the increasing celebrations when penalties are " forced"
Note the increasing celebrations when penalties are " forced"
Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?
" special phase " instead of "special base" base