UAFC Ask the Opposition - Cardiff Blues - ANSWERS P4

[LegsLikeSausages]

ATTR clearly needs a night in bed with a fire-breathing Welsh heure to relax himself.


Is Adam Jones free? . . .

I reckon his missus was swept off her feet by a good-looking Ulsterman. Only explanation for that level of paranoia and bitterness.

How very true.

You'd never get that level of paranoia or bitterness on this forum!

[theArmsPark]

Hi all,

I'm the admin over at theArmsPark.co.uk and I've come to UAFC to congratulate you on your comprehensive victory on Friday night. Your boys were fitter, stronger and smarter than ours and you thoroughly deserved the victory.

I've been really busy for the past week, and as a result didn't really have chance to get on my site to reply to your Q&A post. Firstly can I just say, what a great idea! It's a brilliant way to stir up debate and excitement ahead of a fixture, plus meet fellow supporters and learn more bout one another's clubs.

That said, I was disappointed by the reactions of some of my posters, who I think took your message the wrong way. Yes some of your questions were a bit cheeky, but that's exactly the point, otherwise it wouldn't make for very good reading! I'm certainly not apologising for my posters, who have every right to reply as they choose, but I also wouldn't want UAFC getting the idea that Cardiff Blues fans are unfriendly or unwelcoming - the truth is of course quite the opposite.

The past year has been incredibly difficult for all the Welsh 'Regions' and while officially the WRU and RRW have moved on from the Rugby Services Agreement, those of us who followed the saga closely still aren't entirely happy with the outcome. The vast majority of posters on theArmsPark are extremely well informed, committed fans who have researched extensively and as a result, they don't suffer fools gladly - hense some of the questions not sitting well.

In a bid to restore your faith in us Cardiff fans however, I'd like to offer myself to be interviewed/consulted anytime you would like an opinion on Cardiff Blues or Welsh rugby. You are all entirely welcome on theArmsPark.co.uk and I hope this is the start of a new Celtic Rugby friendship.

iechy Da (or Cheers!)

Andrew

[BaggyTrousers]

Good man Andrew, we think it's a bloody good idea and are rather proud of our Loki for the idea,though don't tell him I said that

[theArmsPark]

Unfortunately this new competition is only a stop-gap position for many. The aim of a British League and stuff the Italians is still alive and well, and merely shelved for four years. Two leagues of ten or twelve teams with promotion and relegation is still the aim. The unions were not expected to capitulate so quickly. The lack of interest in anything but the financial benefits for the professional clubs still reigns supreme and reinforces the importance of Union control in protecting the amateur game and spreading the sport.
The new competition was never really meant to take place so quickly, the organisation does not exist and HEC personnel are filling the gap, the third level has not even been considered - does not add to the bottom line! This war is not over.

All true, have you seen the web site... That is singular, as it is one page, which has the fixture list. The competition is a sham currently, and the RFU are to blame for that.

Anyway, just read the Cardiff Blues forum replies, and am whole hearted reverting my previous statements. I hope they get destroyed tomorrow night, humiliated to the worst. I hope it continues to happen until they understand that to complain about the quality of a league, you cannot be the drivel that fills the bottom of the table.

If they think that things would change in England, let them leave. I don't enjoy watching the Welsh matches because of a lack of competition from them. They have beaten us regularly, but in very questionable circumstances, each time, but we have happily humiliated them and their "international stars" at ravenhill.
I have no sympathy for a team that thinks they are too good for a league that they are being routinely a bottom half side in.


MattMo

Hi MattMo,

Make no mistake, we're not arrogant enough to suggest we're too good for this league. Far, far, far from it. But you miss the point entirely. We want out because the league doesn't offer us enough financial support.

The away support for nearly all non-international club derbies (ie Ulster vs Leinster), pathetic. That's no disrespect to any one of the Pro 12 club's fans, but a fair reflection of the fact next to no one is going to travel from Northern Ireland to South Wales on a Friday night.

The apathy towards to Pro 12 isn't something that we started. In fact going back 10 years or so, it was the Irish who were accused of not taking it seriously while the Welsh were very competitive. However the interest in the Pro 12 has been diminishing in Wales for years, and that's nothing to do with a lack of perceived success - The Ospreys are the join most successful Celtic League side - but it's because of a plethora of reasons which include, but are not limited to; poor away attendance meaning matches lack atmosphere; lack of International players for too many matches (of which we're all guilty) devaluing the whole season; too much free-to-air TV coverage; traditionally not enough time before fixture times and even days get confirmed (makes away travel even more difficult); bizarre kick off times varying from Thursday at 19:35, to Friday at 19:05 or maybe 19:30 and so on across Saturday and Sunday; poor promotion of the league - although I must admit the Welsh regions are largely responsible for this; and most importantly in Wales, the "Team Wales" culture which the WRU promote to senior Welsh players that the league is only there as a warm up to the 6 Nations and Autumn Internationals.

Needless to say not all of those complex issues would be fixed by joining the English Premiership, but many of them would. The counter argument we normally encounter is that this is 'betraying' the other Celtic sides. Well yes, it probably is. But Welsh club rugby is on the brink of collapse. We are a business, and if your business is failing, you do what it takes.

I sincerely wish that more of the Welsh public would buy into the Pro 12 and make it a success. We need their support, and money, to make us better. But one of the reasons we are " routinely a bottom half side" is because we don't have anything link the same playing budget as the Irish sides, something which obviously stems from our poor attendance figures. If current trends continue, the Irish will continue to get stronger and the gap between you and us will increase to the level of you and Italy and eventually Welsh rugby will die out entirely.

For all of the above, it looks unlikely the Welsh sides will ever join the English league and we must now go back to the drawing board and see how we can re-engage the Welsh public with club rugby and work with our Celtic and Irish friends to try to ensure the league is as competitive as possible. For all our sake's.

[LegsLikeSausages]

Hi all,

I'm the admin over at theArmsPark.co.uk and I've come to UAFC to congratulate you on your comprehensive victory on Friday night. Your boys were fitter, stronger and smarter than ours and you thoroughly deserved the victory.

I've been really busy for the past week, and as a result didn't really have chance to get on my site to reply to your Q&A post. Firstly can I just say, what a great idea! It's a brilliant way to stir up debate and excitement ahead of a fixture, plus meet fellow supporters and learn more bout one another's clubs.

That said, I was disappointed by the reactions of some of my posters, who I think took your message the wrong way. Yes some of your questions were a bit cheeky, but that's exactly the point, otherwise it wouldn't make for very good reading! I'm certainly not apologising for my posters, who have every right to reply as they choose, but I also wouldn't want UAFC getting the idea that Cardiff Blues fans are unfriendly or unwelcoming - the truth is of course quite the opposite.

The past year has been incredibly difficult for all the Welsh 'Regions' and while officially the WRU and RRW have moved on from the Rugby Services Agreement, those of us who followed the saga closely still aren't entirely happy with the outcome. The vast majority of posters on theArmsPark are extremely well informed, committed fans who have researched extensively and as a result, they don't suffer fools gladly - hense some of the questions not sitting well.

In a bid to restore your faith in us Cardiff fans however, I'd like to offer myself to be interviewed/consulted anytime you would like an opinion on Cardiff Blues or Welsh rugby. You are all entirely welcome on theArmsPark.co.uk and I hope this is the start of a new Celtic Rugby friendship.

iechy Da (or Cheers!)

Andrew

[rumncoke]

ArmsPark

Basically you have a point in that initially the Irish ,Scots and welsh Unions created the Celtic league as a means of ensuring competitive International teams. The threat being a two fold one of being unable to field competitive teams in the European Cup and losing control of the best players to French and English Clubs. Who would then over expose the players to injury by making them play to many games and /or refuse them permission to play International Rugby.

International Rugby was and is the financial bedrock of Rugby Union in all three countries . The player base in each country is limited in comparison to England and France . There was and is the added lack of population to attract television and commercial incomes into the sport to match either the English or the French .

The Celtic league provided a base to enable the Irish,Welsh and Scots to retain their players .We in Ireland had a head start because the game was administered on a provincial basis and Provincial teams and rivalry existed and provided enough games were being played a professional squad could be created to play in both the league and ERC with Ulster success in the ERC in 1999 this competition was seen as the more prestigious and attracted the bigger crowds .
Friday night rugby in Ulster was started to enable the club player to support the Ulster team because initially Ulster's support was drawn from Club Players, former Players, students and Schoolboys.Until now it is a sporting social event for the man on the street . This interest maybe due to the fact games are seen as more international and professional than the local football which is losing its public appeal because it can not match the quality of the premiership football.

Crowds have grown in Ulster from that of 2 men and dog to 9--10, 000 + and while we welcome away supporters we don't rely on their financial input or numbers to create an atmosphere .

[Wee Woman]

Nice one Armspark, fair play to you for coming over

Edited to add that I'm still not remotely convinced that Welsh sides joining the AP will be the answer to all the regions problems - especially when you have relegation in that league - something you would never be immune to.

[Setanta]

Frightening that the Italians have no television agreement and null points. After three years of steady improvement the uncertainty of last season seems to have driven them back to square one. If Edinburgh were to beat the Ospreys tonight I genuinely fear for our league.

[MattMo]

Hi MattMo,

Make no mistake, we're not arrogant enough to suggest we're too good for this league. Far, far, far from it. But you miss the point entirely. We want out because the league doesn't offer us enough financial support.

The away support for nearly all non-international club derbies (ie Ulster vs Leinster), pathetic. That's no disrespect to any one of the Pro 12 club's fans, but a fair reflection of the fact next to no one is going to travel from Northern Ireland to South Wales on a Friday night.

The apathy towards to Pro 12 isn't something that we started. In fact going back 10 years or so, it was the Irish who were accused of not taking it seriously while the Welsh were very competitive. However the interest in the Pro 12 has been diminishing in Wales for years, and that's nothing to do with a lack of perceived success - The Ospreys are the join most successful Celtic League side - but it's because of a plethora of reasons which include, but are not limited to; poor away attendance meaning matches lack atmosphere; lack of International players for too many matches (of which we're all guilty) devaluing the whole season; too much free-to-air TV coverage; traditionally not enough time before fixture times and even days get confirmed (makes away travel even more difficult); bizarre kick off times varying from Thursday at 19:35, to Friday at 19:05 or maybe 19:30 and so on across Saturday and Sunday; poor promotion of the league - although I must admit the Welsh regions are largely responsible for this; and most importantly in Wales, the "Team Wales" culture which the WRU promote to senior Welsh players that the league is only there as a warm up to the 6 Nations and Autumn Internationals.

Needless to say not all of those complex issues would be fixed by joining the English Premiership, but many of them would. The counter argument we normally encounter is that this is 'betraying' the other Celtic sides. Well yes, it probably is. But Welsh club rugby is on the brink of collapse. We are a business, and if your business is failing, you do what it takes.

I sincerely wish that more of the Welsh public would buy into the Pro 12 and make it a success. We need their support, and money, to make us better. But one of the reasons we are " routinely a bottom half side" is because we don't have anything link the same playing budget as the Irish sides, something which obviously stems from our poor attendance figures. If current trends continue, the Irish will continue to get stronger and the gap between you and us will increase to the level of you and Italy and eventually Welsh rugby will die out entirely.

For all of the above, it looks unlikely the Welsh sides will ever join the English league and we must now go back to the drawing board and see how we can re-engage the Welsh public with club rugby and work with our Celtic and Irish friends to try to ensure the league is as competitive as possible. For all our sake's.

Thank's for taking the time, please realise that this was written in a slightly irritated mood at the hate coming from your posters, as I had written a slightly defensive argument previous to this one, and as I said, the posters Irish hate (which seethed through his "I don't take any interest in Irish Rugby") lost my sympathy.

Must say, I do agree with others on here that we would send our top sides if we felt it neccessary, which obviously this weekend we did. Previously there have been pretty dreadful sides sent, especially when it comes to Leinster, but I think that is more a statement of the strength of depth in their team, as nearly every side has been embarrassed by a scratch side from them at some point.

The defence put up for 70 minutes this weekend is probably the biggest gain you guys have had this year, ulster looked to struggle with the plastic pitch, and the increased amount of moisture you get from this, making the ball slightly harder to handle, but making running much easier.

A regeneration of rugby in Wales would be great, for all of us

[Setanta]

Well Ospreys slaughtered Edinburgh so at least one Welsh side are in the mix. Good for the league.

[UlsterNo9]

Watching Welsh international stars week in week out funded by central contracts will put bums on seats at Welsh clubs, that coupled with said players making the teams more competitive in all competitions.

Central contracts a step in the correct direction in Wales but still a long way to go.

A professional rugby team in a nations capital cannot sell out a 12,000 capacity stadium, need to look within for the answer to this problem not look outside and blame other factors.

Nonsense nonsense nonsense!

[davejohnston]

For all of the above, it looks unlikely the Welsh sides will ever join the English league and we must now go back to the drawing board and see how we can re-engage the Welsh public with club rugby and work with our Celtic and Irish friends to try to ensure the league is as competitive as possible. For all our sake's.

Welcome to board ArmsPark, and thanks for proving not all fans are negative keyboard warriors.

I don't agree with all you said, but I certainly agree with the last paragraph quoted above. I think the boat has sailed for Wales and the AP (regardless of whether that would agave helped or not). If the Welsh clubs can't make a success of the Pro12, then it will be bad for them and in the long run all of us as we need more competitive sides.

Putting the rugby aside I've always been surprised city's like Glasgow, Belfast and Cardiff haven't tried more of a link up to promote city break weekends for away supporters. Glasgow is dead easy to get to and makes a nice trip, a few early beers on the ferry followed by some more on the train before the match.

Sure not every supporter would travel to an away game. But if the prices were right I'd do two or three a season.

[BaggyTrousers]

For all of the above, it looks unlikely the Welsh sides will ever join the English league and we must now go back to the drawing board and see how we can re-engage the Welsh public with club rugby and work with our Celtic and Irish friends to try to ensure the league is as competitive as possible. For all our sake's.

Andrew what many here will not understand is that while our clubs were playing in front of a few hundred on average , there was a thriving league in Wales mainly based in a smallish area meaning local derbies abounded and interest was intense.

Then the Celtic league and the Regions were imposed, originally 5 teams and foes were suddenly clubmates.

You are right also that the Irish were seen as less than committed. Of course central contracts had a part in that but it is a fact that the likes of Paul O'Connell , ROG and BOD amongst others were very rare visitors to Ravenhill or anywhere else.

The difference is that the central contracts, as a side issue from their main purpose, helped Munster and Leinster in the Heineken and that has done wonders for crowd numbers with Ulster coming a little later to the party, now with more than 10000 season ticket holders.

Be all that as it may, it's clear that, as you say, your preferred option of joining the English is a very long shot and that Welsh fans need to get behind the Regions or things will lurch from bad to worse, it's the only game in town unless they turn to another sport.

Perhaps in the longer term a British and Irish league with two divisions might be the panacea for all our woes. In the meantime I wish you well, for we do need each other to make our league as strong as possible and as attractive to sponsors/ advertisers.

[Kofi Annan]

Weekend 12/14 September

Cardiff v Glasgow attendance 6897

Ulster V Zebre attendance 13,835


I would like to thank the thousands of Zebre fans who turned up to Belfast or our numbers would be poor as well

[mikerob]

IIRC in the AP a team only needs to provide 5% of its tickets to away fans and with the exception of maybe Leicester, there isn't much travelling support.

Recognition that a team needs to pull in its own supporters, it can't rely on people travelling.

I checked the attendances over the last 8 years for HEC group games with an Irish team and Welsh team in the same group. For 4 out of 5 games, there was a bigger crowd for the Welsh team v Irish team group game than the Welsh team v English team group game. The only exception was in 2008/9 with a couple of hundred more people going to see Scarlets v Quins than Scarlets v Ulster. So for European games, it looks like a combination of the Irish teams being bigger draws than the English team and bringing more away support than the English teams.