The UAFC

Columbo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 11:37 pm I think that this ‘player revolt / toxicity’ thing is a bit overblown. From what I’ve heard toxicity, to the extent there was any in camp, came from the top - and in fact I don’t really like that word although I’ve probably been guilty of using it in the past myself about McFarland / Ulster.

Others probably know more about this than I do, but what I’ve heard is that McF has always been hard-nosed and a bit of a disciplinarian - shouting at guys, sending them back to the changing rooms if they don’t do exactly what he says, stuff like that. Given the state Ulster were in when he came, a bit of discipline around the camp wasn’t a bad thing necessarily, and there was buy-in to the ‘fight for every inch’ stuff. Of the assistant coaches, what I heard is that Payne would have stood his ground, and tried to guard his territory, while McF walked over the others. When you’re winning this sort of stuff is no big deal, there are many ways to skin a cat, and while he was always a bit of a domineering character, it wasn’t much out of the ordinary for a rugby coach.

But whenever what you’re doing stops getting results, then the kind of bully-boy stuff which was previously tolerated can wear thin pretty quickly. And after Payne left it was the full-on Dan show - nobody doubts his work ethic and his response to things going wrong seemed to be to try to take more influence himself. Whatever happened last season it didn’t work, and on the pitch you can probably trace it down to the red card for Leinster, when Ulster just froze, then the nilling in Sale. Those were kind of shocking games to watch, even though we’d had some bad results before under Dan, something seemed to have caved in.

What I heard back then and over the next few months was that morale absolutely hit the floor, and the camp was just grim and chaotic. ‘Worst it’s ever been’ from a player who’d been there for years and seen plenty of chaos… Because it was such a brad pitt-show, some players did start to mouth off more openly - about things not working, complaining about not being given games, about needing to try different things. I don’t really want to name names, but Gilroy isn’t one that I heard, although I think he was disappointed not to get a contract extension. The guys who were most vocal were guys with not much left to lose anyway because their contracts were up, as I understand it. The fundamental problem though was that Dan was a control freak, had dominated the whole set-up and then when it stopped working and he didn’t seem to have any answers, he lost credibility and some authority - and everyone was miserable, so there was some chirping.

But to go from that to a ‘toxic player power’ problem is way OTT - in fact I would argue that there isn’t enough player power in Ulster’s squad in terms of leaders.

Columbo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 11:37 pm I think that this ‘player revolt / toxicity’ thing is a bit overblown. From what I’ve heard toxicity, to the extent there was any in camp, came from the top - and in fact I don’t really like that word although I’ve probably been guilty of using it in the past myself about McFarland / Ulster.

Others probably know more about this than I do, but what I’ve heard is that McF has always been hard-nosed and a bit of a disciplinarian - shouting at guys, sending them back to the changing rooms if they don’t do exactly what he says, stuff like that. Given the state Ulster were in when he came, a bit of discipline around the camp wasn’t a bad thing necessarily, and there was buy-in to the ‘fight for every inch’ stuff. Of the assistant coaches, what I heard is that Payne would have stood his ground, and tried to guard his territory, while McF walked over the others. When you’re winning this sort of stuff is no big deal, there are many ways to skin a cat, and while he was always a bit of a domineering character, it wasn’t much out of the ordinary for a rugby coach.

But whenever what you’re doing stops getting results, then the kind of bully-boy stuff which was previously tolerated can wear thin pretty quickly. And after Payne left it was the full-on Dan show - nobody doubts his work ethic and his response to things going wrong seemed to be to try to take more influence himself. Whatever happened last season it didn’t work, and on the pitch you can probably trace it down to the red card for Leinster, when Ulster just froze, then the nilling in Sale. Those were kind of shocking games to watch, even though we’d had some bad results before under Dan, something seemed to have caved in.

What I heard back then and over the next few months was that morale absolutely hit the floor, and the camp was just grim and chaotic. ‘Worst it’s ever been’ from a player who’d been there for years and seen plenty of chaos… Because it was such a brad pitt-show, some players did start to mouth off more openly - about things not working, complaining about not being given games, about needing to try different things. I don’t really want to name names, but Gilroy isn’t one that I heard, although I think he was disappointed not to get a contract extension. The guys who were most vocal were guys with not much left to lose anyway because their contracts were up, as I understand it. The fundamental problem though was that Dan was a control freak, had dominated the whole set-up and then when it stopped working and he didn’t seem to have any answers, he lost credibility and some authority - and everyone was miserable, so there was some chirping.

But to go from that to a ‘toxic player power’ problem is way OTT - in fact I would argue that there isn’t enough player power in Ulster’s squad in terms of leaders.

justinr73 wrote:And since when was Marcus Rea the greatest judge of a coach anyway?

At least Gilroy got a few Ireland caps.

justinr73 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:45 am Things never tend to end well and I guess it’s frequently six of one and half a dozen of the other.

Until the last few games, I’d always got the impression that the players were still giving it 100% on the park and when it looked like that had changed then the IRFU seem to have acted decisively.

If some of the players had moved as quickly against Toulouse as they did to get to the pub afterwards then we may not have shipped nearly fifty points.

They looked a lot less disappointed than me.

Kofi Annan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:16 am

Columbo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 11:37 pm I think that this ‘player revolt / toxicity’ thing is a bit overblown. From what I’ve heard toxicity, to the extent there was any in camp, came from the top - and in fact I don’t really like that word although I’ve probably been guilty of using it in the past myself about McFarland / Ulster.

Others probably know more about this than I do, but what I’ve heard is that McF has always been hard-nosed and a bit of a disciplinarian - shouting at guys, sending them back to the changing rooms if they don’t do exactly what he says, stuff like that. Given the state Ulster were in when he came, a bit of discipline around the camp wasn’t a bad thing necessarily, and there was buy-in to the ‘fight for every inch’ stuff. Of the assistant coaches, what I heard is that Payne would have stood his ground, and tried to guard his territory, while McF walked over the others. When you’re winning this sort of stuff is no big deal, there are many ways to skin a cat, and while he was always a bit of a domineering character, it wasn’t much out of the ordinary for a rugby coach.

But whenever what you’re doing stops getting results, then the kind of bully-boy stuff which was previously tolerated can wear thin pretty quickly. And after Payne left it was the full-on Dan show - nobody doubts his work ethic and his response to things going wrong seemed to be to try to take more influence himself. Whatever happened last season it didn’t work, and on the pitch you can probably trace it down to the red card for Leinster, when Ulster just froze, then the nilling in Sale. Those were kind of shocking games to watch, even though we’d had some bad results before under Dan, something seemed to have caved in.

What I heard back then and over the next few months was that morale absolutely hit the floor, and the camp was just grim and chaotic. ‘Worst it’s ever been’ from a player who’d been there for years and seen plenty of chaos… Because it was such a brad pitt-show, some players did start to mouth off more openly - about things not working, complaining about not being given games, about needing to try different things. I don’t really want to name names, but Gilroy isn’t one that I heard, although I think he was disappointed not to get a contract extension. The guys who were most vocal were guys with not much left to lose anyway because their contracts were up, as I understand it. The fundamental problem though was that Dan was a control freak, had dominated the whole set-up and then when it stopped working and he didn’t seem to have any answers, he lost credibility and some authority - and everyone was miserable, so there was some chirping.

But to go from that to a ‘toxic player power’ problem is way OTT - in fact I would argue that there isn’t enough player power in Ulster’s squad in terms of leaders.

Pretty accurate above , Gilroy is now playing at his level , and with Bangor heading towards relegation he may get more money at Holywood ,

McFarland did not go off into the night quietly!

Bart S wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:07 pm Who is the guy Steve Beacom writing in the Bel Tele about this? He's basically branding McFarland as a complete failure which I disagree with. He took the basket case to a number of agonising near misses against good teams. His failure was to not kick on from there and ultimately regress in alarming fashion and indeed the last 12 months or so were very poor. However, this guy just seems to have written everything off from his tenure as a failure whilst offering nothing else in terms of solutions or wider accountability.

Bart S wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:07 pm Who is the guy Steve Beacom writing in the Bel Tele about this? He's basically branding McFarland as a complete failure which I disagree with. He took the basket case to a number of agonising near misses against good teams. His failure was to not kick on from there and ultimately regress in alarming fashion and indeed the last 12 months or so were very poor. However, this guy just seems to have written everything off from his tenure as a failure whilst offering nothing else in terms of solutions or wider accountability.

CIMANFOREVER wrote:

justinr73 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:45 am Things never tend to end well and I guess it’s frequently six of one and half a dozen of the other.

Until the last few games, I’d always got the impression that the players were still giving it 100% on the park and when it looked like that had changed then the IRFU seem to have acted decisively.

If some of the players had moved as quickly against Toulouse as they did to get to the pub afterwards then we may not have shipped nearly fifty points.

They looked a lot less disappointed than me.

There is no doubt it appears some of our players lack a Professional attitude- whilst there's the commercial aspect of signings autographs, interviews etc I got the impression some hammerings were greeted with fleeting disappointment in some quarters, and a metaphorical shrug of the shoulders as if they are impervious to shouldering some of the blame. The smiley stuff really galls me if I'm honest- especially in these straightened times supporters are paying good money home and away to have the Cr#p that's been served up whilst players give the impression they're untouchable and in sinecures.
I may be being unfair...