London Bridge

[mikerob]

There will probably be politicians calling for even more anti-terrorism legislation on the basis of "something must be done and this is something so lets do it". On average, the UK has introduced new anti-terror laws every 2 years since 2000 but there doesn't seem to be any analysis of how effective they have been or if it is just politicians passing laws for the sake of it.

In particular, Theresa May seems to be clueless about the internet and if the UK did what she appears to want to do, this would mean confiscating the phones of all visitors to the UK, for example...

I wonder if her phrase "enough is enough" applies to selling arms to the Saudis?

[Rooster]

If it takes 15-20 bullets to take down a terrorist that's 15-20 bullets well used

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It took 6 bullets to kill 2 scumrats, 44 to nail the other one. I've no issue with that, we have no idea what the circumstances, the BBC news showed armed police in an area with bushy hedged gardens, we have no idea of how many opened fire, perhaps 10 officers shot 10 or a dozen - who knows, who cares, they got him and fortunately the poor guy winged in the bonce appears top be ok.

Result all round.

You might have no issue with that Baggy and neither do I with the fact they got the 3 but the issue I would have is why it took so many shots to take down the third. For a basic firearms certificate for a high calibre sports rifle you do a test in which a firearms officer will take you for a walk and point out possible target areas and you tell him if it is safe to shoot or not, the basic rules are clear view with solid stray bullet catcher behind target in case you miss target.
Now I know this was a different situation in that they were hunting an armed terrorist but he was armed with a knife and not able to return fire, he could potentially explode though, so from that it would appear that officers involved panicked and started shooting randomly at him rather than getting a clear shot to take him down and then a couple to finish him off, no doubt as CT says those up the food chain will look at this and learn from potential errors and at the same time think themselves very lucky that only one innocent person got a non life threatening injury, those stray bullets can kill at a serious distance and a ricochet is also potentially fatal.
Another thing they will look at was the fact that an officer was standing beside one of those shot and the guy was wearing a fake bomb vest, that area should have been cleared and the bomb squad called, dead suicide bombers have been known to explode as they fit vests with timers and antihandling devices as a last ditch effort to get a few casualties.

[Rooster]

There will probably be politicians calling for even more anti-terrorism legislation on the basis of "something must be done and this is something so lets do it". On average, the UK has introduced new anti-terror laws every 2 years since 2000 but there doesn't seem to be any analysis of how effective they have been or if it is just politicians passing laws for the sake of it.

In particular, Theresa May seems to be clueless about the internet and if the UK did what she appears to want to do, this would mean confiscating the phones of all visitors to the UK, for example...

I wonder if her phrase "enough is enough" applies to selling arms to the Saudis?

The internet is a huge source of intelligence on these guys, drive them underground and they also lose that means of detection of both those concerned and their followers.

There has been analysis of the anti terror legislation and they are as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike, a seen to be doing something exercise.

[BaggyTrousers]

If it takes 15-20 bullets to take down a terrorist that's 15-20 bullets well used

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It took 6 bullets to kill 2 scumrats, 44 to nail the other one. I've no issue with that, we have no idea what the circumstances, the BBC news showed armed police in an area with bushy hedged gardens, we have no idea of how many opened fire, perhaps 10 officers shot 10 or a dozen - who knows, who cares, they got him and fortunately the poor guy winged in the bonce appears top be ok.

Result all round.

You might have no issue with that Baggy and neither do I with the fact they got the 3 but the issue I would have is why it took so many shots to take down the third. For a basic firearms certificate for a high calibre sports rifle you do a test in which a firearms officer will take you for a walk and point out possible target areas and you tell him if it is safe to shoot or not, the basic rules are clear view with solid stray bullet catcher behind target in case you miss target.
Now I know this was a different situation in that they were hunting an armed terrorist but he was armed with a knife and not able to return fire, he could potentially explode though, so from that it would appear that officers involved panicked and started shooting randomly at him rather than getting a clear shot to take him down and then a couple to finish him off, no doubt as CT says those up the food chain will look at this and learn from potential errors and at the same time think themselves very lucky that only one innocent person got a non life threatening injury, those stray bullets can kill at a serious distance and a ricochet is also potentially fatal.
Another thing they will look at was the fact that an officer was standing beside one of those shot and the guy was wearing a fake bomb vest, that area should have been cleared and the bomb squad called, dead suicide bombers have been known to explode as they fit vests with timers and antihandling devices as a last ditch effort to get a few casualties.

Yes Rooster, but they had no idea how he was armed other than knowing he had a knife and what appeared to be a suicide vest, they could not know whether or not he also had a gun, but my guess would be that thinking he may have a suicide vest the order was to bring that muttafukka down in case he gets into a big crowd and detonates himself as a human bomb.

I understand that all such incidents are gone through afterwards with a fine tooth comb, but as Joseph Public I have no qualms about what they did.

What does concern me is that yet again we have stories of at least one of these balloxi having been reported as a potential terrorist and as a definitely radicalised arsehole. Given the 20000 reductions in police numbers achieved by the monstrous Mrs May, I'm wondering did she also play fast and loose with the terrorist hotline staffing or those that review the information.

The woman is a disgrace and cannot but be found culpable personally for some of what is now happening. That said the little englanders will doubtless vote her in for blancmange-like and scatterbrained leadership on Thursday.

The Tories, not to be trusted on anything. Cnuts.

[promenader 2]

I wonder if in years to come the police will be hunted down and charged with criminal offences for doing their job..

I wouldn't be surprised if they were

Absolutely no chance of that happening.

Well it happened here and it has happened to soldiers in Middle East conflicts so I would not rule it out. I don't think any of the aforementioned should have happened but there is always someone in this country to stir things up about the past.

Rooster & Cockers, you both know as well as I do that things here were seldom as clear cut as guys on suicide missions in a massive city. For the record, one of my most favourite questions years ago here was,"If there isn't a shoot to kill policy, why the fuc'k not?" I, of course, meant RA on active service rather than innocent civilians such as 1st Para made legitimate targets on a Sunday in Derry.

Equally, I'll say that the guy who has played his "get out of jail free" card in what he did in the Middle-East remains a murderer in my opinion. I'm not in favour of the forces of the crown having carte blanche to shoot who they wish, I'm in favour of them being free to use whatever force is required in situations such as last night.

I think conflating what happened here in Norn Iron with a head on suicide mission aimed at individually killing people indiscriminately in London is worthless.

Besides, as you will both definitely know, a Norn Iron life has little value compared to a "mainland" life, your hero Thatcher made that abundantly clear with her "acceptable level of violence" bullshite, the legacy of which we still feel to this day.

Nail on head.

[mikerob]

It may be worth mentioning the de Menezes case that happened after the 2005 London bombings where the police did misidentify and shoot an innocent person.

For that case, they decided not to prosecute the officers involved but the police as an organisation were fined (and I'm not sure how that works given fining the police amounts to shuffling around taxpayer money..)

[Cockatrice]

If it takes 15-20 bullets to take down a terrorist that's 15-20 bullets well used

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It took 6 bullets to kill 2 scumrats, 44 to nail the other one. I've no issue with that, we have no idea what the circumstances, the BBC news showed armed police in an area with bushy hedged gardens, we have no idea of how many opened fire, perhaps 10 officers shot 10 or a dozen - who knows, who cares, they got him and fortunately the poor guy winged in the bonce appears top be ok.

Result all round.

You might have no issue with that Baggy and neither do I with the fact they got the 3 but the issue I would have is why it took so many shots to take down the third. For a basic firearms certificate for a high calibre sports rifle you do a test in which a firearms officer will take you for a walk and point out possible target areas and you tell him if it is safe to shoot or not, the basic rules are clear view with solid stray bullet catcher behind target in case you miss target.
Now I know this was a different situation in that they were hunting an armed terrorist but he was armed with a knife and not able to return fire, he could potentially explode though, so from that it would appear that officers involved panicked and started shooting randomly at him rather than getting a clear shot to take him down and then a couple to finish him off, no doubt as CT says those up the food chain will look at this and learn from potential errors and at the same time think themselves very lucky that only one innocent person got a non life threatening injury, those stray bullets can kill at a serious distance and a ricochet is also potentially fatal.
Another thing they will look at was the fact that an officer was standing beside one of those shot and the guy was wearing a fake bomb vest, that area should have been cleared and the bomb squad called, dead suicide bombers have been known to explode as they fit vests with timers and antihandling devices as a last ditch effort to get a few casualties.

slightly technical here but on the fear of the attackers having bombs on them... the pictures show police officers standing over the bodies and I am led to believe that they did not immediately clear the area so it would be interesting to learn if the bomb disposal was called to the scene because I have seen no TV/News reports suggesting same.. and before anyone tells me that the police are also experts in identifying IED's then think again.. if this was the reason for shooting then it was also the reason for cordoning the scene off and evacuating the public away from the scene of a potential bomb.

50 shots suggests someone might have been on fully auto although it is divided by eight because they all had a blast. Firing a high power weapon in an urban environment on fully auto for the police would be 1. stupid and 2. likely against any police protocol. Of interest is the Met are saying that around 50 shots were fired... simple to come out and state exact numbers as everything is accountable for a reason..

[Rooster]

Oooops , someone was asleep on the job when you add this to several reports on him
https://www.theguardian.com/global/vide ... tary-video

[BaggyTrousers]

Also in the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -attackers

That will doubtless please some who are rather keen on baiting the Muslim community as a bunch of terrorists/sympathisers.

[BaggyTrousers]

Old news for some but I've just heard that Russian Spy Nigel Farage, a person of interest to the FBI, says we should introduce internment.

Now I know that the Brits have few to no fuc'ks to give for Norn Iron but even a passing knowledge of "the troubles" would let any gobdaw understand that with the possible exception of Bloody Sunday, Internment was the RA's greatest recruiting drive.

One of my brothers-in-law was briefly interned, utterly without any remote foundation. He didn't join the RA, many did.

[BaggyTrousers]

Amusingly, our dear friends and allies, the appalling Saudis are amongst 6 Arab countries calling Qatar "funders of terrorism".... and there was me thinking that Saudi and Qatar were like blood brothers in this funding of DAESH & acts contrary to the interests of Persia.

Meanwhile, in a bank somewhere, there is a big account with numbers known only to Sepp Blatter containing the bribe money for awarding Qatar the FIFA World Cup. Good old Bahrain, that bastion of human rights are amongst the hypocritical six.

Still, when all is said and done, a bit of internecine scrapping amongst that normally staunchly supportive cabal of wealthy despots, our friends to whom we sell billions in armaments to subdue any unrest in their slave populations & other countries, is noteworthy in itself.

However, most of us will remain of a Sunni disposition and not give a Shiite.

[Russ]

Apparently someone released an email from Emir Tamin to Trumpo saying the rest were funding isis. So they've all rounded on Tamin

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[Cockatrice]

from the images coming out it seems that all three attackers were shot in that one street as the bodies can be seen outside the pub.. the police are seen standing over the bodies and I was told in one case seen turning one over... I suspect they will have to revisit this and learn some lessons very quickly because had they been bombers even after being shot hey could still have exploded..

My thoughts go to the British Transport Police Officer who tackled all three with a baton and suffered serious injuries as his actions saved lives as with the off duty (rugby player ) officer who also confronted them at one stage. Two other police officers were also injured it appears although not clear how.. stories that several police officers ran away I hope are only misinformation.

I feel for those relatives of the so called ones that are still missing which I presume is a new way to explain not being identified.

One of the attacker lived in Dublin and another it seems was from Italy which will open up a discussion agin on open borders and easy access although in the case of the Italian one he had been refused going to Syria so it will be interesting to see if the Brits were informed..

Whilst our security services may be amongst the best the situation in this country for some years has been dire.. it is just we keep ignoring it and it has ben an accident waiting to happen.. now it has three times in a month suddenly some difficult questions may need to get asked.. The worrying thing for me is that some of them have been reported on more than one occasions but despite all the so called anti terrorism legislation we have you often find it is not possible to lock someone up due to lack of any evidence and a court and prison system that is also failing..

If we had 23,000 so called hard line supporters then we needed to do something about it way back and if we start now it will take some catch up.. so expect more mistakes.

[mikerob]

As I mentioned, a lot of the anti-terror legislation has been for the politicians to give the illusion they are doing something.

Calls to prevent encryption on the internet, or mass surveillance of the internet also show how clueless the politicians are and these fall into the "something must be done and this is something..." category.

[Russ]

As I mentioned, a lot of the anti-terror legislation has been for the politicians to give the illusion they are doing something.

Calls to prevent encryption on the internet, or mass surveillance of the internet also show how clueless the politicians are and these fall into the "something must be done and this is something..." category.

Indeed

The future of the internet and everything should be the use of cryptography

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