Lesser teams in the Sooper Dooper

[Shan]

Piutau being begged to stay by Wasps fans on Twitter. With Ulster playing the way they are and Wasps playing the way they are, would you blame him if he did stay?

He can't stay as he has signed a contract. Not really sure what Ulster want him for though. You could have the NZ backs on the field but if you have no pack there isn't a damn thing they could do.

[Bangors]

Thought both games I watched today were excellent
Clermont v Ospreys very entertaining with lots of good rugby
Wasps v Toulon great result and the team that wanted it most deserved to win
Just wish that Ulster could show a little of the enterprise I watched today
Both of these games were worthy of the H Cup

[for dog and ulcer]

Thought both games I watched today were excellent
Clermont v Ospreys very entertaining with lots of good rugby
Wasps v Toulon great result and the team that wanted it most deserved to win
Just wish that Ulster could show a little of the enterprise I watched today
Both of these games were worthy of the H Cup

Agreed 100% but I thought the standard of officiating in both games was unacceptable at this level.

[ruckover]

Piutau being begged to stay by Wasps fans on Twitter. With Ulster playing the way they are and Wasps playing the way they are, would you blame him if he did stay?

He can't stay as he has signed a contract. Not really sure what Ulster want him for though. You could have the NZ backs on the field but if you have no pack there isn't a damn thing they could do.

Perhaps we found ourselves in the same position as Munster and didn't get much of a choice.

[BaggyTrousers]

Piutau being begged to stay by Wasps fans on Twitter. With Ulster playing the way they are and Wasps playing the way they are, would you blame him if he did stay?

He can't stay as he has signed a contract. Not really sure what Ulster want him for though. You could have the NZ backs on the field but if you have no pack there isn't a damn thing they could do.

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh, you noticed then.

Much as every member of the team deserved a slaggin' for that performance, quite apart from the backs failing to lay a hand on three of the four try scorers -make that all 4 but 1 they are excused for - it's bloody hard to play with no ball. The pack were decimated.

The better ones are also long in the tooth, the supporting cast are not supporting.

Still, I think reckon the Irish rugby world will be astonished next week when Ulster batter the Mexicans.......... I would be too.

[Shan]

Perhaps we found ourselves in the same position as Munster and didn't get much of a choice.

You may very well be correct. I think the IRFU are doing the wrong thing for the right reason. They need to understand that magically making good players out of poor ones just by playing them more is a nonsense. Another nonsense is thinking you can improve the overall standard of teams by not employing a small few top class non-Irish players. The last 15 years tells us these few excellent imports can have a huge positive impact through the team.

[Snipe Watson]

Piutau being begged to stay by Wasps fans on Twitter. With Ulster playing the way they are and Wasps playing the way they are, would you blame him if he did stay?

He can't stay as he has signed a contract. Not really sure what Ulster want him for though. You could have the NZ backs on the field but if you have no pack there isn't a damn thing they could do.

Ouch....
Away up the yard ye Clare mucksavage.......

It's a fair point though

[Shan]

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh, you noticed then.

Much as every member of the team deserved a slaggin' for that performance, quite apart from the backs failing to lay a hand on three of the four try scorers -make that all 4 but 1 they are excused for - it's bloody hard to play with no ball. The pack were decimated.

The better ones are also long in the tooth, the supporting cast are not supporting.

Still, I think reckon the Irish rugby world will be astonished next week when Ulster batter the Mexicans.......... I would be too.

Noticed it and said it long before now. Noticed it in Munster too despite the horsesh1te spewed by some down here.


Leinster stronger up front which may swing it their way next weekend. However none of the Irish teams are considerably better than the others so wouldn't be inclined to easily call any of the games between them.

[Shan]

Ouch....
Away up the yard ye Clare mucksavage.......

It's a fair point though

Sorry to be so blunt Snipe. I take no pleasure as I'm sure you know. I am concerned for Irish rugby as a whole. I want all our teams to be better than they are. However I can't get away from the reality that things are not as I'd like.


Maybe a few savages in our packs would help. I watched the Ulster game on BT Sport and heard Ferris doing commentating. I was thinking what a pity that he was not on the field instead........and not just because he is an awful commentator and analyst as I've said before.

[ruckover]

Perhaps we found ourselves in the same position as Munster and didn't get much of a choice.

You may very well be correct. I think the IRFU are doing the wrong thing for the right reason. They need to understand that magically making good players out of poor ones just by playing them more is a nonsense. Another nonsense is thinking you can improve the overall standard of teams by not employing a small few top class non-Irish players. The last 15 years tells us these few excellent imports can have a huge positive impact through the team.

I am never wrong a chara

For everyone else, make of that what you will.

Ultimately the provinces exist to supply the national team with players. As such anything the IRFU says goes and while we could debate this till the cows come home, if the IRFU deny a province an NIQ because they feel it would be detrimental to the national side then tough luck, you ain't getting him. Yes it is unfair, especially in the Moore scenario, but something all four provinces must live with and something that won't change. And sadly, that's all that can be said.

[BaggyTrousers]

I see all the Pro12 teams lost this weekend.

I think it isn't fair that the English & French have to play these meaningless games, we should withdraw gracefully and allow them to recruit any player worth a damn to play abroad.

After all it's only fair & that is what they want. It'll be good for rugby in the long run.

[Snipe Watson]

Ouch....
Away up the yard ye Clare mucksavage.......

It's a fair point though

Sorry to be so blunt Snipe. I take no pleasure as I'm sure you know. I am concerned for Irish rugby as a whole. I want all our teams to be better than they are. However I can't get away from the reality that things are not as I'd like.


Maybe a few savages in our packs would help. I watched the Ulster game on BT Sport and heard Ferris doing commentating. I was thinking what a pity that he was not on the field instead........and not just because he is an awful commentator and analyst as I've said before.

He is shocking indeed Shan. Your right, Ireland is not in a good spot at the moment. For starters, there's a big Paulie shaped hole down your way and it's going to be difficult to fill. I hope POM gets the captaincy, but fear that nice Jamie Heaslip may just get it. We are going to have to go backwards before we can go forwards and Jamie is not the future.

[BaggyTrousers]

There's a point to the IRFU's stance but it's going to have to be modified. The golden generation are all gone and the next generation are coming through. It will take time but Irish Rugby is cyclical given the numbers that play. It's just the way it is. The IRFU will be distributing the RWC money and I'd expect decent signings ahead. Of course, as I've pointed out, that just papers over the cracks as Rugby transforms from a participation sport into a spectator sport where the athletic are identified and offered a career in sport and those who would have played for a club don't play after they leave school.

Still, Ospreys have shown that homegrown talent and a bit of belief and guts can go a long way. Chatting with a chum earlier - we've both been to Stade De Tyres and the atmosphere in Ckermont is unparalleled. Same size of ground as Ravenhill and shows the sterility of the Kingspan Experience up.

In the final months of Deccie Kidneys tenure as coach, I had expected Ireland to be in a similar place as Ulster find themselves now, then along comes FibberJose in what has been both a minor miracle and the coincidental failure of England to make all their numerical and commercial advantages count, we are lulled into some sense of "all is well".

It's not however, it's far from well. Leinster without BOD & Munster shorn of Paulie, look like teams that have lost hugely more than one player, and Ulster.........?

I've never heard of this nirvana, Ckermont, but I do know that the Vulcans at Clermont understand the value of well directed and entirely self-centred razzmatazz and use it to their advantage. No "moron with a mic" for them, do you think there is any chance that their "whipperupper" of the fans doesn't know their names, and probably those of their wives and children, let alone have the inability to read them out as pictures flash up on the screen?

I see nothing of encouragement coming down the line, even FibberJose's minor miracle is predicated on playing guys out of position for we are not developing players in remotely enough numbers to naturally produce a quality team. I concur with Ruckie's view on NIQs, it needs changing but it won't happen.

Go further down to the provinces and the picture gets ever bleaker.

The history of the PRO12/Magners/Celtic is that it was expected that either Munster or Leinster would win it barring seasons when they were busy winning the Heineken Cup and Ospreys would nip in to win it. Can anyone see past Glasgow retaining it with Ospreys despite their RWC nightmare start as likely as any to challenge? Can anyone see any province producing young players such as Ospreys and Scaaaaaalets regularly do.

My cup is considerably less than half full, then again as Grumps says, a wee win in Mexico Central and the world seems a better place.......... hard to believe it just the same and of course, it would be a whole level below where our aspirations are alleged to lie. "Lie" in all probability is the operative word, I suspect the vision of WD has long since left the building, probably arm in arm with the word "authenticity".

I had thought it would be a wrench not having Ulster games to attend when I depart these shores, it's becoming less important every time we usher that clown to the microphone to bellow inane garbage.

[BuckRogers]

I suppose that really Leinster, Ulster and possibly Munster (dependent on their double header against Leicester) are now this seasons lesser teams?

An embarrassing weekend for the Pro12 though I will wait until December before I proclaim total disaster.

Thon at the weekend was a fupping disaster for Ulster personally and the league generally. Saracens should not be able to put 27 unanswered points on us when looking at the team sheets but they did, and comfortably.

Beyond that there are bigger problems especially in Ireland. Leinster, the side whom Joe built his RWC team around, are playing marginally worse than us though I expect them to raise their game to a slightly higher level than we are capable off at the weekend to confirm we are at best the third province currently. If confirmation is still required that is.

Beyond that none of the provinces currently have enough 'grunt' or 'dog' up front. Ulster, very definitely have the least. There is next to no level of inventive back play and supposedly decent to good players look disinterested across all of the provincial sides.

The rest of the Pro12/SDC season and the 6N could be a chastening experience for Irish Rugby fans.

[BaggyTrousers]

Buck,

Would you ever tighten up?

We have discussed this at length. Ulster have "marked time" for two seasons. Last seasons recruitment post Muller leaving wasn't good enough. It was "stop gap" stuff. Anyone with an ounce of rugby knowledge knew it. This season was sacrificed on the altar of Team Oirland.

At least we now have our coaching team actually in place full time. We have our post-RWC budget. We have our signings identified. There is a base to build from. You and I both know that success in Irish Rugby is cyclical and dependant upon good players coming through and being added to. There was always going to be a rebuilding phase. This is it. Of course, there are concerns about quantity and quality coming through. There are concerns about off field structures and management. There are concerns about direction and ambition. All that aside, 3 top quality signings (2 in the pack) added to what we have and all of a sudden several of the cracks get papered over.

Wanst, I would never ask a gentleman to name names, but please reassure me, are you, with best intentions and reliable information, supposing that to be the case or are you writing incontrovertible fact?

My breath is bated. I am a master of bated breath.