London Bridge

[Kofi Annan]

Rooster, imagine arriving on a scene with a member of the public being slashed and stabbed with limited information coming across a radio stating that suspected terrorists have mown people down with a vehicle and are now stabbing others. Maybe 3-5 Seconds to save someones life, change yours and others for ever if you get it wrong. Their training kicked in thankfully and they used the minimum rounds to achieve their aim. Just doing their job! Pretty sure its not me who's daft.

"Minimum rounds to achieve their aim"

50 rounds do sound a bit excessive to me, I watched the video from the cctv, bit concerning to be honest , and such a pity there is no sound to get an idea of when shots were fired, one attacker was almost shot a point blank as he retreated and them attacked the officer who initially appeared to hesitate, Pablo , you seem a bit of an expert , I may be wrong, you can train all you like, you can go through every scenario in training , but the hard fact is, when it's done for real only then do you know.

Pablo, as you seem to be a possible resident expert, have you ever seen the damage of 5.56 exit wound ? I would suspect ,and I may be wrong , that as it enters the body and begins to exit, it has started to create a vacuum and pulling behind it cloth, body matter, materials even bone etc, and probably exit wound the size of your fist or bigger , maybe even striking bone and exiting elsewhere with more damage. I could be wrong , any how I suspect , of 50 rounds fired few were on target to the torso.

Never played COD. Never shot zombies.

[Cockatrice]

I understand that the family of the Spanish man who died fighting off the attackers are raising concerns over the delay in releasing the body and also that they are now suggesting that he may have been shot by the police.

[Russ]

Been passed just now

Whole area still cordoned off. Area hasn't been touched

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[BaggyTrousers]

I understand that the family of the Spanish man who died fighting off the attackers are raising concerns over the delay in releasing the body and also that they are now suggesting that he may have been shot by the police.

Well Cockers, since they had apparently no guns he must indeed have been shot by the police if there are any bullet wounds.

I remember my promise not to go apeshit on the police if there is - those horrible words - collateral damage, so being a man of my word I won't. Shame that a man who apparently rush in armed with a skateboard to save a woman being attacked dies like that.

Don't know if it's been mentioned here but I heard today that a plan to fence off the pedestrian areas on several bridges was in place but shitcanned by the Mayor of London, no not Trump's enemy nice Mr Khan ........... it was that utter clown Alexander Boris de Pfefell Johnson.

As with Mrs May and her cuts to the police & other security services, her potential successor has shown that AUSTERITY is killing British citizens and tourists alike. Remember that when the next election comes around and these despicable basterds tell you they are fixing the economy by cutting everything they can think of whilst giving tax breaks to the well to do & more than doubling the National Debt. Safe with the economy my shitebox.

No wait, I forgot, our votes don't matter.

[Cockatrice]

I understand that the family of the Spanish man who died fighting off the attackers are raising concerns over the delay in releasing the body and also that they are now suggesting that he may have been shot by the police.

Well Cockers, since they had apparently no guns he must indeed have been shot by the police if there are any bullet wounds.

I remember my promise not to go apeshit on the police if there is - those horrible words - collateral damage, so being a man of my word I won't. Shame that a man who apparently rush in armed with a skateboard to save a woman being attacked dies like that.

Don't know if it's been mentioned here but I heard today that a plan to fence off the pedestrian areas on several bridges was in place but shitcanned by the Mayor of London, no not Trump's enemy nice Mr Khan ........... it was that utter clown Alexander Boris de Pfefell Johnson.

As with Mrs May and her cuts to the police & other security services, her potential successor has shown that AUSTERITY is killing British citizens and tourists alike. Remember that when the next election comes around and these despicable basterds tell you they are fixing the economy by cutting everything they can think of whilst giving tax breaks to the well to do & more than doubling the National Debt. Safe with the economy my shitebox.

No wait, I forgot, our votes don't matter.

My DUP vote mattered...

baggy.... Despite what some might think my earlier postings were not a criticism of the police simply an observation of how police officers from three different police forces coordinated a response. Notwithstanding cutbacks many police officers in the UK do not want the added responsibility of carrying firearms and of course they cannot be forced hence a problem with insufficient number of armed police.

As for our Spanish hero (and I mean that) the family are seemingly raising concerns which suggests to me there is still some uncertainty primarily based on reports that a number of families including them have not yet been able to identify or see the bodies. There may or may not be others but I do know that the tourist described by the Met as recovering from a minor gun shot injury was in fact shot in the head and is far from minor.

[Russ]

I understand that the family of the Spanish man who died fighting off the attackers are raising concerns over the delay in releasing the body and also that they are now suggesting that he may have been shot by the police.

Well Cockers, since they had apparently no guns he must indeed have been shot by the police if there are any bullet wounds.

I remember my promise not to go apeshit on the police if there is - those horrible words - collateral damage, so being a man of my word I won't. Shame that a man who apparently rush in armed with a skateboard to save a woman being attacked dies like that.

Don't know if it's been mentioned here but I heard today that a plan to fence off the pedestrian areas on several bridges was in place but shitcanned by the Mayor of London, no not Trump's enemy nice Mr Khan ........... it was that utter clown Alexander Boris de Pfefell Johnson.

As with Mrs May and her cuts to the police & other security services, her potential successor has shown that AUSTERITY is killing British citizens and tourists alike. Remember that when the next election comes around and these despicable basterds tell you they are fixing the economy by cutting everything they can think of whilst giving tax breaks to the well to do & more than doubling the National Debt. Safe with the economy my shitebox.

No wait, I forgot, our votes don't matter.

The bridge in question used to have a fence on it
The fence was removed due to the sheer volume of people who cross that bridge hourly and because they were deemed a hazard to cyclists

Khan has said he will not erect a permanent barrier

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Rooster]

I understand that the family of the Spanish man who died fighting off the attackers are raising concerns over the delay in releasing the body and also that they are now suggesting that he may have been shot by the police.

Well Cockers, since they had apparently no guns he must indeed have been shot by the police if there are any bullet wounds.

I remember my promise not to go apeshit on the police if there is - those horrible words - collateral damage, so being a man of my word I won't. Shame that a man who apparently rush in armed with a skateboard to save a woman being attacked dies like that.

Don't know if it's been mentioned here but I heard today that a plan to fence off the pedestrian areas on several bridges was in place but shitcanned by the Mayor of London, no not Trump's enemy nice Mr Khan ........... it was that utter clown Alexander Boris de Pfefell Johnson.

As with Mrs May and her cuts to the police & other security services, her potential successor has shown that AUSTERITY is killing British citizens and tourists alike. Remember that when the next election comes around and these despicable basterds tell you they are fixing the economy by cutting everything they can think of whilst giving tax breaks to the well to do & more than doubling the National Debt. Safe with the economy my shitebox.

No wait, I forgot, our votes don't matter.

My DUP vote mattered...

baggy.... Despite what some might think my earlier postings were not a criticism of the police simply an observation of how police officers from three different police forces coordinated a response. Notwithstanding cutbacks many police officers in the UK do not want the added responsibility of carrying firearms and of course they cannot be forced hence a problem with insufficient number of armed police.

As for our Spanish hero (and I mean that) the family are seemingly raising concerns which suggests to me there is still some uncertainty primarily based on reports that a number of families including them have not yet been able to identify or see the bodies. There may or may not be others but I do know that the tourist described by the Met as recovering from a minor gun shot injury was in fact shot in the head and is far from minor.

The video where the police shoot the 3 attacker contains 12 to 14 shots, total shots fired officially is 46 now I remember on the night watching TV and hearing another bit of sustained gunfire and at the time they were talking of police hunting another attacker I have wondered since what happened at that stage. Up to the time of the video where the 3 get shot I had assumed they were after the 3rd man, but now that is all up in the air and seems to have gone press silence on the episode

[Cockatrice]

Rooster.. I knew at the time they had got the three together but I accept that with the obvious confusion it would be easy to think there might be more and also sense would say to keep checking and make sure the area is not only closed down but secure...

The fact that Russ says the area is still largely closed means the work is painstakingly slow but at the same time other larger attacks have been cleared up much faster. Like you I counted 12-15 shots more or less together which I take ties in with that incident posted online and like you I see some issues with how that scene played out.. Police firing across each other's path for one.

[BaggyTrousers]

I understand that the family of the Spanish man who died fighting off the attackers are raising concerns over the delay in releasing the body and also that they are now suggesting that he may have been shot by the police.

Well Cockers, since they had apparently no guns he must indeed have been shot by the police if there are any bullet wounds.

I remember my promise not to go apeshit on the police if there is - those horrible words - collateral damage, so being a man of my word I won't. Shame that a man who apparently rush in armed with a skateboard to save a woman being attacked dies like that.

Don't know if it's been mentioned here but I heard today that a plan to fence off the pedestrian areas on several bridges was in place but shitcanned by the Mayor of London, no not Trump's enemy nice Mr Khan ........... it was that utter clown Alexander Boris de Pfefell Johnson.

As with Mrs May and her cuts to the police & other security services, her potential successor has shown that AUSTERITY is killing British citizens and tourists alike. Remember that when the next election comes around and these despicable basterds tell you they are fixing the economy by cutting everything they can think of whilst giving tax breaks to the well to do & more than doubling the National Debt. Safe with the economy my shitebox.

No wait, I forgot, our votes don't matter.

The bridge in question used to have a fence on it
The fence was removed due to the sheer volume of people who cross that bridge hourly and because they were deemed a hazard to cyclists

Khan has said he will not erect a permanent barrier

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

You give me Hobson's choice young man, who do I believe, Russ (a known fantasist) or HMQ's BBC?

As for Comrade Khan, I suspect that that is an initial "they'll not cower us" type of reaction. He may well see eventually that the city of London has a duty of care for their citizens and visitors alike, for it is such an easy means of attack that we certainly haven't seen the last of it. Civic duty may well occasion a rethink.

[Russ]

I understand that the family of the Spanish man who died fighting off the attackers are raising concerns over the delay in releasing the body and also that they are now suggesting that he may have been shot by the police.

Well Cockers, since they had apparently no guns he must indeed have been shot by the police if there are any bullet wounds.

I remember my promise not to go apeshit on the police if there is - those horrible words - collateral damage, so being a man of my word I won't. Shame that a man who apparently rush in armed with a skateboard to save a woman being attacked dies like that.

Don't know if it's been mentioned here but I heard today that a plan to fence off the pedestrian areas on several bridges was in place but shitcanned by the Mayor of London, no not Trump's enemy nice Mr Khan ........... it was that utter clown Alexander Boris de Pfefell Johnson.

As with Mrs May and her cuts to the police & other security services, her potential successor has shown that AUSTERITY is killing British citizens and tourists alike. Remember that when the next election comes around and these despicable basterds tell you they are fixing the economy by cutting everything they can think of whilst giving tax breaks to the well to do & more than doubling the National Debt. Safe with the economy my shitebox.

No wait, I forgot, our votes don't matter.

The bridge in question used to have a fence on it
The fence was removed due to the sheer volume of people who cross that bridge hourly and because they were deemed a hazard to cyclists

Khan has said he will not erect a permanent barrier

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

You give me Hobson's choice young man, who do I believe, Russ (a known fantasist) or HMQ's BBC?

As for Comrade Khan, I suspect that that is an initial "they'll not cower us" type of reaction. He may well see eventually that the city of London has a duty of care for their citizens and visitors alike, for it is such an easy means of attack that we certainly haven't seen the last of it. Civic duty may well occasion a rethink.

I'm not here for clicks

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[BaggyTrousers]

I understand that the family of the Spanish man who died fighting off the attackers are raising concerns over the delay in releasing the body and also that they are now suggesting that he may have been shot by the police.

Well Cockers, since they had apparently no guns he must indeed have been shot by the police if there are any bullet wounds.

I remember my promise not to go apeshit on the police if there is - those horrible words - collateral damage, so being a man of my word I won't. Shame that a man who apparently rush in armed with a skateboard to save a woman being attacked dies like that.

Don't know if it's been mentioned here but I heard today that a plan to fence off the pedestrian areas on several bridges was in place but shitcanned by the Mayor of London, no not Trump's enemy nice Mr Khan ........... it was that utter clown Alexander Boris de Pfefell Johnson.

As with Mrs May and her cuts to the police & other security services, her potential successor has shown that AUSTERITY is killing British citizens and tourists alike. Remember that when the next election comes around and these despicable basterds tell you they are fixing the economy by cutting everything they can think of whilst giving tax breaks to the well to do & more than doubling the National Debt. Safe with the economy my shitebox.

No wait, I forgot, our votes don't matter.

My DUP vote mattered...

baggy.... Despite what some might think my earlier postings were not a criticism of the police simply an observation of how police officers from three different police forces coordinated a response. Notwithstanding cutbacks many police officers in the UK do not want the added responsibility of carrying firearms and of course they cannot be forced hence a problem with insufficient number of armed police.

As for our Spanish hero (and I mean that) the family are seemingly raising concerns which suggests to me there is still some uncertainty primarily based on reports that a number of families including them have not yet been able to identify or see the bodies. There may or may not be others but I do know that the tourist described by the Met as recovering from a minor gun shot injury was in fact shot in the head and is far from minor.

Cockers your posts have always suggested you would be a DUPer voter, you have my deep sympathies for your affliction.

Now then, at no time did I think you were being critical of the police. I, of course, was not a peeler, though, in my chosen slave job I did have guns pointed directly at me on 8 occasions, I'd be surprised if too many policemen would have had the same level of experience. Of course, there is a big difference, I absolutely know that the scumbags hadn't the slightest interest in harming me, they just wanted a slap of my "product". Nevertheless, it's not good for your nerves and I'd say my experiences with stress and depression over the last 18 years are not entirely unrelated, though without giving detail there has been a lot more than that, I've seldom led a happy life in a conventional sense.

IN my job I had a long period involved with mortgages and in particular a mortgage broker who needed someone he trusted to place loads of RUC men's mortgages, conservatively I'd have met a couple of hundred at least, many of whom became regular customers, several of whom I was on great terms with, a handful I'd have had a social drink with. I fully understand that some of them were less than comfortable with weapons though never doubting they needed them, so it's no stretch to imagine that a routinely unarmed force would baulk at the idea. I do think that major cities now require a substantial number of armed officers and that there should, in general, be a proportion of them deployed close to large gatherings. It may not be easy to do in the short term but I think it should be in medium term planning.

As for your comments on our Spanish hero, I genuinely hope that there was no organised withholding of negative information about how Madridilano, Sr.Ignacio Echeverría died. I couldn't understand how it took 4 days for him to be identified. Of course, distrusting the Brits as I do, I would not be surprised if it was just too toxic that a hero was shot by the police in the run-up to the election. Maybe I'm too fond of a conspiracy theory, but then the Tories & the Police in England have a fair bit of previous. I hope I'm wrong.

[BaggyTrousers]

Jesus Russ, at first glance I thought you'd typed that you weren't here for chicks. Just as well, Wee Woman & Shammy are spoken for, and of course I've already got first dabs of Wee Woman should any strange accident befall Mr Wee Woman. Of course there's Lady P, but I'm reliably informed she has a hairy chest and though I have no issue with hirsute weemen, I doubt Lady P is a goer.

[Cockatrice]

baggy.. I am told there is medicine that can turn me around.

London is much better served than large parts of the country but again reluctance amongst English police to carry weapons is an issue that will need addressed unless they simply put the army out as in France etc.. The new all signing all dancing CTFSO that has appeared on the streets has a strength of approx 130 but by the time you split that into a shift system and spread it across the capital anymore than one incident will pose a problem...

The quickest thing that would have tackled the London Bridge incident was had the police been armed then the Transport Officer may well have taken all three down if not others before. That of course is a conversation that will be left for another day.

The Spanish hero already has been awarded a medal and rightly so... the diplomatic involvement of the Spanish should get to the bottom of any family fears although like you I too was very surprised just how long some of the bodies took to be identified.. indeed it appears that whilst families were running around for days looking for missing relatives the police were running around albeit at a much slower pace trying to identify the dead bodies.. I would have thought the police could have had those conversations at a much earlier date to try and help establish identity.

If one looks back at a previous botched police incident (not saying this was) involving a Mr Mendez there was much levelling of accusations in all directions. If not mistaken an officer later admitted deleting computer records on the instruction of a certain Mrs Dick. Anyhow my guess is that the MET would have preferred not to have that CCTV video released..

Like rooster I account for 12-15 shots which leaves them 30 plus shots short of what the police ended up firing.. time will tell when those missing shots were fired and at whom.. 5.56 and 7.62 can travel a long way..

[Dave]

Reports of another act of terrorism involving a van in London. One fatality confirmed and several people injured. When will this madness end?

[solidarity]

Not soon, Dave, sadly, not soon.

Interesting too see the police pretty quickly describe this as an act of terrorism, probably a good thing to do, to acknowledge that Muslims can be victims of terror as well as anyone else. But also I see a claim that the perpetrator is to be investigated with respect to 'mental health issues'.