Biblical matters

[big mervyn]

I hope our new Saffer would agree with me.

I don't . I want our new Saffer to strike down upon our neighbours with great vengeance and furious anger .

[BaggyTrousers]

I hope our new Saffer would agree with me.

I don't . I want our new Saffer to strike down upon our neighbours with great vengeance and furious anger .

Hard to beat a bit of Sam'l L Jackson. Hard to beat a bit of Pulp Fiction....... which brings us right back in topic.

[Brian Dunn 382]

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just stating my opinion. In my bible Jesus never preached hell, fire and brimstone. I was not trying to preach quoting verses. Most of the people you are talking about quote God's law to condemn those they disagree with. My bible tells me to fulfill God's law is to love them. This is my personal belief. I honestly do not know what motivates these people.

I agree it is a rugby forum but I didn't start the thread Biblical matters. Very happy to get back to rugby.

[Russ]

You must have a different bible to me

Mine claims jebus is god and some ghost and he definitely murdered infidels

[Dave]

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just stating my opinion. In my bible Jesus never preached hell, fire and brimstone. I was not trying to preach quoting verses. Most of the people you are talking about quote God's law to condemn those they disagree with. My bible tells me to fulfill God's law is to love them. This is my personal belief. I honestly do not know what motivates these people.

I agree it is a rugby forum but I didn't start the thread Biblical matters. Very happy to get back to rugby.

You have a very selective interpretation of the Bible. Are denying that there is a hell? That most major Christian dominations teach in some format that unbelievers go there?
 Mark chapter 9:
And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where

“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
    and the fire is not quenched.’[d]

49 Everyone will be salted with fire.



These words are in my Bible and attributed to Jesus. He's scaring people into believing in his divinity or at least the author is. Eaten by worms, nice.

[BaggyTrousers]

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just stating my opinion. In my bible Jesus never preached hell, fire and brimstone. I was not trying to preach quoting verses. Most of the people you are talking about quote God's law to condemn those they disagree with. My bible tells me to fulfill God's law is to love them. This is my personal belief. I honestly do not know what motivates these people.

I agree it is a rugby forum but I didn't start the thread Biblical matters. Very happy to get back to rugby.

Brian, of course I have picked out some specific chapters and verses to point out some ..........hmmm, "inconsistencies" ,is as close as I will get, in the good book, mixed messages of love and forgiveness, cheek by jowl with eminently strong and definitely uncompromising, crushing and breaking of those, who the writers say, transgress God's "red lines".

What often staggers me is that of the dozens upon dozens of "abominations", believers pick and choose those they regard as prapper, they disregard eating shellfish, there are few who mind women wearing trousers, baggy or otherwise, and scores of things that seem "everyday acceptable" yet we all know the one abomination they have huge difficulty with. I'm as gay as the next man of course and generally give the flat earthers a bye ball but that hate preacher in the video, I'd happily punch in the throat.

Here is where I probably have the greatest difference to you. I don't believe anyone as every heard what "God says/wants/requires. I do not believe the Bible is the word of God. Let me give you a comparison.

On this forum Snipe will regularly read my posts and deliver his critique of my post based not on what I have written but on his slant on what he thinks I'm trying to say. (that's fine by the way, I like Snipe) In the same way, for me, the bible is a collection of writings which is loosely regarded as "The Word of God", I believe it's simply writers putting words in "God's mouth", just as Snipe often tries to put words in mine. Mind you I do have a god complex about me, but sadly I doubt many buy into it

Brian, for me you are welcome to your Bible and what comfort in life it brings you, I wouldn't mind changing some minds, but like you I don't expect to.

[OneMore]

For what it's worth, I think anyone who believes the Bible has, to some degree, got a 'selective' belief in that Bible. That's a given.

There's another way to look at an ancient text (or collection of the same) such as the Bible though. In many ways I think the Bible can be a way to see something about a god, without necessarily seeing the god directly. We can read beautiful poetry and know that it holds truth and be changed by it, without us having to literally re-enact the contents of the poem.

I don't think homosexuality is an abomination in 2016 any more than the other things they handed out death for a few thousand years ago.

On eternal punishment in hell, I'll say this: it's by no means an "all agreed" matter within Christianity, even within Western "evangelical" Christianity. And I personally, am far more interested in the hell lived daily by those who have been made to suffer because of the greed and destruction of fellow man. But then maybe I'm naive.

[Dave]

It would take some strong leadership for any particular denomination to declare hell a falsity.

[BR]

I think for most of my modern Christian friends, the burning fires of hell are a metaphor for being without God. Hell is remaining in a Godless existence, which they may see worse than having your ballix burnt off for all eternity. The 'punishment' for not believing in God is not knowing God.

[BaggyTrousers]

I think for most of my modern Christian friends, the burning fires of hell are a metaphor for being without God. Hell is remaining in a Godless existence, which they may see worse than having your ballix burnt off for all eternity. The 'punishment' for not believing in God is not knowing God.

I can live/die with that deal.

It just seems that much of the bible bangs on about the tortuous consequences and you know what the cynical mind always thinks, if it's that good why must you at every cut and turn be threatened with dire consequences. It's full of "if you do that, God will .........." insert from burn you in eternity, dash your kid's heads on the ground, pluck the unborn wean from your wife's belly & countless other brahmers.

Sounds to me like the head man in a crime family, obey & all will be well, step outta line you schmuck and I'll take your head off with piano wire......oh aye, and the heads of your next 7 generations. (hence 7 heads in a duffle bag - not one of his better movies)

[BR]

One should always consider for which audience a book of the Bible was written. Simpler times back then, and the likes of Leviticus just tells people what they should not do (often with good reason), but rather than try to explain the reasoning, it was easier just to say it would displease God and he's punish you. (Bit like bringing up kids really)

[Brian Dunn 382]

At our age (I think for most of us) we have fairly fixed views. I just wanted to point out that you cannot judge Christianity by the rantings of some deluded and probably rich American. It is like comparing the beliefs of all atheists with the actions of Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao. Debates like this usually get nowhere as most people defend their beliefs rather than try to understand the other side. I am confident in my beliefs and live my life accordingly. I do not know everything nor am I correct about everything and trust than as I get older my understanding and compassion will increase.

[Dave]

I think for most of my modern Christian friends, the burning fires of hell are a metaphor for being without God. Hell is remaining in a Godless existence, which they may see worse than having your ballix burnt off for all eternity. The 'punishment' for not believing in God is not knowing God.

I can live/die with that deal.

It just seems that much of the bible bangs on about the tortuous consequences and you know what the cynical mind always thinks, if it's that good why must you at every cut and turn be threatened with dire consequences. It's full of "if you do that, God will .........." insert from burn you in eternity, dash your kid's heads on the ground, pluck the unborn wean from your wife's belly & countless other brahmers.

Sounds to me like the head man in a crime family, obey & all will be well, step outta line you schmuck and I'll take your head off with piano wire......oh aye, and the heads of your next 7 generations. (hence 7 heads in a duffle bag - not one of his better movies)

I think there is some realisation in more liberal Christian circles that a lot of what Jesus is quoted as saying was metaphor and hyperbole. Eventually they may also see that the bit about being the son of God and going to heaven was all figurative too. It's all highly improbable in my view.

[Brian Dunn 382]

What references do you have for this Baggy? I quoted verses not to preach at people but to show what the bible says not some idiot's interpretation of it. Certainly the law in the Old Testament is strict but remember these were rules for a large number of people leading a nomadic life. At a medical conference this was actually described as the first public health measure. I don't recognise your quotes. Possibly from a part of the bible I haven't read. My belief is that God has done everything to prevent anyone going to hell and putting aside human conjecture I believe that it is just a separation from God. We all know John 3:16 God loves the world but John 3:17 says Jesus didn't come to condemn the world. We obviously come at this from totally different directions.

[Russ]

You didn't read it?