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The Big Gay Cake

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Re: The Big Gay Cake

Postby BR » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:32 pm

Guest house case is very different AFAIK.
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Re: The Big Gay Cake

Postby Rooster » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:44 pm

BR wrote:Guest house case is very different AFAIK.

Not so sure as is it not selling a service as well ?
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Re: The Big Gay Cake

Postby BR » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:02 pm

Rooster wrote:
BR wrote:Guest house case is very different AFAIK.

Not so sure as is it not selling a service as well ?


As I remember (and as reported).

Guesthouse refused on basis of perceived sexual preferences, based on the customers' gender/sexuality*.
Ashers refused on basis of political opinion.

*not sure if sexuality was known or implied in that case.
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Re: The Big Gay Cake

Postby Russ » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:06 pm

Curried yoghurt would be ming
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Re: The Big Gay Cake

Postby Cornerfleg » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:11 pm

If you say Riata ... would you just upset the Indians?
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Re: The Big Gay Cake

Postby big mervyn » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:17 pm

BR wrote:
Rooster wrote:
BR wrote:Guest house case is very different AFAIK.

Not so sure as is it not selling a service as well ?


As I remember (and as reported).

Guesthouse refused on basis of perceived sexual preferences, based on the customers' gender/sexuality*.
Ashers refused on basis of political opinion.

*not sure if sexuality was known or implied in that case.

Yes. If Ashers had refused to sell a cake with two wee men on it or say "Seamie loves Sammy" then their wicket would have been stickier imo. The political element muddies the waters.
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Re: The Big Gay Cake

Postby ravinghill » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:33 pm

But in what way can it be wrong for Ashers to say "I wont bake you a cake that says support gay marriage as we dont agree with that opinion" yet Peter Robinson and his extreme right wing christian party can state "we will not pass a law that allows gay marriage as we dont agree with it" ??? or even worse "we wont allow gay people to give blood as we dont agree with being gay"
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Re: The Big Gay Cake

Postby Rooster » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:38 pm

big mervyn wrote:
BR wrote:
Rooster wrote:
BR wrote:Guest house case is very different AFAIK.

Not so sure as is it not selling a service as well ?


As I remember (and as reported).

Guesthouse refused on basis of perceived sexual preferences, based on the customers' gender/sexuality*.
Ashers refused on basis of political opinion.

*not sure if sexuality was known or implied in that case.

Yes. If Ashers had refused to sell a cake with two wee men on it or say "Seamie loves Sammy" then their wicket would have been stickier imo. The political element muddies the waters.

Was it politics or religious belief they refused to sell the cake on ?
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Re: The Big Gay Cake

Postby big mervyn » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:49 pm

Religious grounds I believe.

The fact that same sex marriage is currently illegal here strengthens their case imo. Seems reasonable for them not to print something that contravenes the law as it stands. If they refused to print one celebrating a civil partnership that would be a different matter.
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Re: The Big Gay Cake

Postby big mervyn » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:52 pm

... maybe Jane will sue 'em. Can't believe the Queen of cakes hasn't copywrited her moniker.
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Re: The Big Gay Cake

Postby mikerob » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:10 pm

big mervyn wrote:Religious grounds I believe.

The fact that same sex marriage is currently illegal here strengthens their case imo. Seems reasonable for them not to print something that contravenes the law as it stands. If they refused to print one celebrating a civil partnership that would be a different matter.


I'm not sure there is a legal issue if someone advocates something that is currently illegal or else there would be no campaigning at all to change existing laws.

If they wanted the cake to say "Increase maximum speed limit" or "Support legalisation of marijuana" could someone refuse to do this because they disagree with this?
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Re: The Big Gay Cake

Postby Cornerfleg » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:28 pm

What if someone wanted a cake with ban gays on it ... could they be refused?
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Re: The Big Gay Cake

Postby BR » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:32 pm

mikerob wrote:
big mervyn wrote:Religious grounds I believe.

The fact that same sex marriage is currently illegal here strengthens their case imo. Seems reasonable for them not to print something that contravenes the law as it stands. If they refused to print one celebrating a civil partnership that would be a different matter.


I'm not sure there is a legal issue if someone advocates something that is currently illegal or else there would be no campaigning at all to change existing laws.

If they wanted the cake to say "Increase maximum speed limit" or "Support legalisation of marijuana" could someone refuse to do this because they disagree with this?


Yes - they could. That is the point. Their opposition was on religous grounds (ie their religious beliefs contradicted the customers political message). Their opposition was not on the grounds of the customers' sexuality. I have to presume they would also have refused my custom if I had asked for the same message.
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Re: The Big Gay Cake

Postby Dave » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:40 pm

I just tried to order a cake with the message, 'Dear Joe, Jared is a 15, good lad'. They refused on religious grounds. They said the word of Joe is not to be questioned. I'm fecking ragin so ah am! I even suggested Ricky Andrew could deliver it to Cartoon house.
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Re: The Big Gay Cake

Postby solidarity » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:48 pm

BR wrote:
Yes - they could. That is the point. Their opposition was on religous grounds (ie their religious beliefs contradicted the customers political message). Their opposition was not on the grounds of the customers' sexuality. I have to presume they would also have refused my custom if I had asked for the same message.


I think this hits the nail on the head.
If a straight bloke asks for a cake with 'Support gay marriage' surely they can refuse to support his opinion.
If a gay bloke asks for a cake with 'Support Ulster Rugby' they have no right to refuse him, simply because he is gay.
If a gay bloke asks for a cake with 'Support gay marriage' surely they can refuse on the same basis as the first, but they can't refuse on the basis of the second.
We must support the right of all people to have access to goods and services equally, but if we are policing people's personal beliefs, we're on the road to a bad place.
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