What makes you happy

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Cap'n Grumpy
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Re: What makes you happy

Post by Cap'n Grumpy »

WeeWorld wrote:I won't second guess you Captain.
Could you imagine today's players encountering the likes of Norman Hunter or Tommy Smith?
They'd give them something to fall over and writhe about and yet back in the day hardly anyone did.
In the thousands of games played back in the old First division, dives were remarkable because they were so rare.
Hence you having to go back to '71 to find one. Famous it was, the player dived, possibly...
I didn't have to go back to 1971 to find one.

I simply put Francis Lee into Google and looked for videos - it was one of the first to come up. I stopped looking then.

And as you should well know, there was a lot less televised footie in them thar days with most matches not being covered, or if they were, it was a single camera for the highlights only and usually not kept on file after. Back then, the FA Cup final was a massive day of TV and one of very few live matches watched on the box (BBC and ITV). The more usual fayre was Match of the Day, where you usually got highlights of 2 matches on Saturday night, and then highlights of 3 more (always with a London match as the main feature) on ITV on Sunday afternoon.

The fact that the first video I found actually had accusations of diving perhaps lends credence to the suggestion that it wasn't that uncommon ... but then it was Franny Lee, so maybe not that unusual and perhaps vindicates promenader2 and his evidence.

As for my assertion that it was in all levels of the game, I can well remember some of my primary school mates of many decades ago practicing their dives and learning how to trip themselves to try to con a free-kick or penalty from the ref.
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WeeWorld
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Re: What makes you happy

Post by WeeWorld »

Cap'n Grumpy wrote:
WeeWorld wrote:I won't second guess you Captain.
Could you imagine today's players encountering the likes of Norman Hunter or Tommy Smith?
They'd give them something to fall over and writhe about and yet back in the day hardly anyone did.
In the thousands of games played back in the old First division, dives were remarkable because they were so rare.
Hence you having to go back to '71 to find one. Famous it was, the player dived, possibly...
I didn't have to go back to 1971 to find one.

I simply put Francis Lee into Google and looked for videos - it was one of the first to come up. I stopped looking then.

And as you should well know, there was a lot less televised footie in them thar days with most matches not being covered, or if they were, it was a single camera for the highlights only and usually not kept on file after. Back then, the FA Cup final was a massive day of TV and one of very few live matches watched on the box (BBC and ITV). The more usual fayre was Match of the Day, where you usually got highlights of 2 matches on Saturday night, and then highlights of 3 more (always with a London match as the main feature) on ITV on Sunday afternoon.

The fact that the first video I found actually had accusations of diving perhaps lends credence to the suggestion that it wasn't that uncommon ... but then it was Franny Lee, so maybe not that unusual and perhaps vindicates promenader2 and his evidence.

As for my assertion that it was in all levels of the game, I can well remember some of my primary school mates of many decades ago practicing their dives and learning how to trip themselves to try to con a free-kick or penalty from the ref.
What Irish kid ever pretended to be an English player?
You need to remember that nearly all the live tv football pre-sky were international or european games. You school friends were more than likely copying south americans or Italians or Germans. They were the players every kid pretended to be.
It's pretty widely accepted that it was the german team of 1990 that took diving to a whole new level and it wasn't all just Kiinsmann either, voller was another. But Klinsmann was the one signed for Spurs and after that we had Pires etc until today it's accepted that if you touch a player it's your fault if they go down rather than him being a cheat.
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BaggyTrousers
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Re: What makes you happy

Post by BaggyTrousers »

Xenophobic claptrap, quelle surprise. You are simply parroting the nonsense that the xenophobic English media has done since time immetesticle.

Why do you think Raheem Stirling is still being called a N***** this weekend past. I cannot draw a direct line to it, but we are told that hate crime has risen after the now doomed BRexit vote and we are told today that racist behaviour at football grounds in England is on the rise for the first time since bananas were first thrown at Albert Johansson in the sixties.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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WeeWorld
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Re: What makes you happy

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You make a completely unsupported link between diving and Raheem Sterling getting racial abuse.
Try to be logical.
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Father Jack
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Re: What makes you happy

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I'm watching to see how this develops... >threaten
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Cap'n Grumpy
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Re: What makes you happy

Post by Cap'n Grumpy »

WeeWorld wrote:What Irish kid ever pretended to be an English player?
You need to remember that nearly all the live tv football pre-sky were international or european games. You school friends were more than likely copying south americans or Italians or Germans. They were the players every kid pretended to be.
It's pretty widely accepted that it was the german team of 1990 that took diving to a whole new level and it wasn't all just Kiinsmann either, voller was another. But Klinsmann was the one signed for Spurs and after that we had Pires etc until today it's accepted that if you touch a player it's your fault if they go down rather than him being a cheat.
I do remember that most live football was international football, but MOST football shown on TV was still in highlights programmes on BBC and ITV, and that's where most youngsters saw footballers diving - especially ITV because BBC Match of the Day was on too late at night for some, but LWT's The Big Match was on at suitable viewing time for childer. Or maybe if its not live, you think that children won't copy it? Catch yersel on!

As Baggy say's, yer talking xenophobic claptrap if you don't think kids wanted to emulate the players of Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal Spurs etc, most of whom were British /Irish in those days.

It might be widely accepted in your family or home that the German's took diving to a new level, but not in my house.

It may have missed have missed your attention but when Gary Linekar retired,they did a very good documentary on his career in which he admitted to effectively diving to win penalties when he won the golden boot in 1986 world cup. What he said he did was push the ball past the keeper, then drag his foot so it made contact with the keeper before going down, It almost invariably won a penalty. Players still do it to this day and it is an accepted part of football. Note that it is the striker initiating contact, not the keeper.

To me however, I interpret that as the striker deliberately kicking the keeper - it is him who causes the contact and it is him who should be penalised. However, most people think if the keeper is daft enough to go down at his feet, he deserves to give away a penalty if he doesn't get the ball cleanly.

Please note, his admission was for acts carried out BEFORE your so called expert divers in 1990.

Now, go and boil yer xenophobic heed.

Over and OUT!
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Cap'n Grumpy
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Re: What makes you happy

Post by Cap'n Grumpy »

Father Jack wrote:I'm watching to see how this develops... >threaten
Watch away Father

As Mark Twain said, Never argue with a stupid person - they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Or, Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.

I'm outta here, and will leave it to the fool.
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WeeWorld
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Re: What makes you happy

Post by WeeWorld »

Cap'n Grumpy wrote:
WeeWorld wrote:but when Gary Linekar retired,they did a very good documentary on his career in which he admitted to effectively diving to win penalties when he won the golden boot in 1986 world cup.
You're wrong there, I'm afraid.
All 6 of Lineker's goals in the '86 world cup finals came in open play.
After that he moved to Spain for a few years.
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WeeWorld
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Re: What makes you happy

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Father Jack wrote:I'm watching to see how this develops... >threaten
yes, step-father.
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Dave
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Re: What makes you happy

Post by Dave »

Father Jack wrote:I'm watching to see how this develops... >threaten
Me too

Image
I have my own tv channel, what have you got?
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BaggyTrousers
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Re: What makes you happy

Post by BaggyTrousers »

WeeWorld wrote:You make a completely unsupported link between diving and Raheem Sterling getting racial abuse.
Try to be logical.
I'm delighted by your perspicacity, you actually read what I wrote for a change. I stated very clearly there is no direct link, I will only add that I can only explain things, I cannot make you understand it.
Father Jack wrote:I'm watching to see how this develops... >threaten
How did I do Father, I've promised a close friend of yours I will be nice .......... well, as nice as circumstances permit. :thumleft:
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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BaggyTrousers
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Re: What makes you happy

Post by BaggyTrousers »

Dave wrote:
Father Jack wrote:I'm watching to see how this develops... >threaten
Me too

Image
Is that "The Snapper"?
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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Re: What makes you happy

Post by Jackie Brown »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=you ... jp5OmoDYQM

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Cap'n Grumpy
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Re: What makes you happy

Post by Cap'n Grumpy »

WeeWorld wrote:
Cap'n Grumpy wrote:
WeeWorld wrote:but when Gary Linekar retired,they did a very good documentary on his career in which he admitted to effectively diving to win penalties when he won the golden boot in 1986 world cup.
You're wrong there, I'm afraid.
All 6 of Lineker's goals in the '86 world cup finals came in open play.
After that he moved to Spain for a few years.
I stand corrected it was at the 1990 WC - the very same WC where you accuse the Germans - that he won and took two penalties (one against the keeper, one against a defender) by the method I described. He has also admitted using the method it for most of the duration of his career.

I notice you do not address the general principle of what I said. But no - an Englander would not stoop so low as a German.

Total tosh!

(Was that okay Father?)
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Dave
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Re: What makes you happy

Post by Dave »

BaggyTrousers wrote:
Dave wrote:
Father Jack wrote:I'm watching to see how this develops... >threaten
Me too

Image
Is that "The Snapper"?
It could be. I just cannot work out who he is....
I have my own tv channel, what have you got?
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