An Irishman's View of the Lions Selection

Stuff from around the world.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
ding dong2u
Red Hand Ambassador
Posts: 2030
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:55 pm
Location: University of Walamaloo

An Irishman's View of the Lions Selection

Post by ding dong2u »

Read this today in the Grauniad and I couldn't agree with him more.

Why I won't be supporting Woodward's English Lions

Sir Clive's dull brand of rugby and his reliance on ageing Englishman leaves Irishman Barry Glendenning distinctly unimpressed

Friday June 24, 2005


Clive Woodward: too reliant on England's Rugby World Cup Winners

So now we know. Clive Woodward's pre-Tour talk about selecting players on the basis of form was exactly that - talk. Familiarity, favouritism and conservatism have prevailed, and in come the creaking English war-horses who did a job for him in 2003, at the expense of the more inventive Welsh and Irish whose performances in the warm-up matches, never mind the Six Nations, have earned them every right to feel aggrieved at this totally predictable snub.

A glance at the team-sheet reveals that the Lions XV set to cross the line (the sideline only, in all probability) in Christchurch's Jade Stadium this weekend boasts three full-backs. In a departure that in any other circumstances could be described as "radical", two of them will play on the wings in order to facilitate the one who's better known as an out-of-form winger at full-back. Form before reputation indeed - it's classic Clive.
In an adjacent stand, Ireland's Geordan Murphy, arguably the most creative tourist to have pulled on the No15 jersey since the Lions arrival in New Zealand, will be seen scratching his head with the standard-issue giant red foam finger handed to him by the official Lions tour Morale Coordinator, wondering what he has to do to get a break from Clive Woodward short of swearing off potatoes for life while burning a copy of the 1916 Irish proclamation in the back of the team bus.

He could well be sitting next to Gavin Henson, the perma-tanned revelation of the Six Nations who will sit out the game so that the centre berth, which most intelligent rugby folk assumed would be his, can be filled by an out-of-sorts English out-half with a dodgy shoulder and little match practice. In the event of Jonny Wilkinson (for it is he) succumbing to injury while tackling one of the many giant All Blacks who are almost certain to hurtle his way at great velocity, he will be replaced by Will Greenwood, another Englishman whose recent performances have been flatter than a month-old pint.

And so to the flankers: Richard Hill, 32, and Neil Back, 36. Always capable of taking care of business for England, the only real surprise about their inclusion is that they won't be joined in the back row by the peerless Dean Richards, 41.

Clive Woodward may well have had a point when he wrote in his part self-help, part self-congratulatory book Winning! about the need "to have a whole armoury of ways of playing if you are to win against the best sides in the world", but the team he has selected to play against New Zealand confirms what we already knew - Clive Woodward does not have a whole armoury of ways of playing. He has one.

In polite society it is known as "control rugby", although those of us who aren't blinkered by allegiance to any of the England teams it has served can think of far less flattering adjectives to describe it. An affront to everything that is good about the game, the brand of metronomic, smash-and-bash, wham-bam-kick three points if you can anti-rugby advocated by Woodward is even more painful to watch than it is to play. Hoof the ball to the opposition, draw an infringement from the ensuing melee and smile your trademark thin-lipped rictus as your place-kicker keeps the scoreboard ticking over three points at a time.

Was it for this that thousands of boorish, deck shoe-wearing city boys took six weeks out of the city to aroo-cha-cha halfway around the world at great expense in order to stand on pub tables with their trousers around their ankles while drinking pints of lager through a sock? It probably was, but they're all floppy-fringed imbeciles and quite frankly the rest of us deserve better.

The Welsh team that won the Grand Slam did so playing rugby the way God intended it to be played: forwards delivered quick, clean ball to a phalanx of breathtakingly inventive backs who scored wonderful tries. It was the kind of team-work that separates us from the beasts in the fields and come Saturday morning you might see similar heroics, but it's a stone-wall certainty they won't be performed by men in red shirts. If the Lions win the first Test, they will win ugly, Woodward style. Their head coach will be lauded and will smugly intone, as he has in the past, that "winning is everything".

Well I'm sorry Sir Clive, but it may come as a huge shock to you to learn that there are those of us in Great Britain and Ireland who are of the strong opinion that as far as this Lions Tour is concerned, winning most certainly is not everything. There are those of us in Great Britain and Ireland who greeted your appointment as Lions head coach with groans of despair. There are those of us in Great Britain and Ireland who find it incredibly difficult to wish any team under your tutelage well, and what's more, there are those of us in Great Britain and Ireland who are seriously questioning the wisdom of dragging our weary, hungover carcasses out of bed at some ungodly hour of the morning to watch your British and Irish Lions try to "England" New Zealand into submission in a Test match.

Although the points tally likely to be clocked up by the Lions tomorrow is open to debate, win or lose, the entertainment value of watching the 80 minutes of kick-and-grimace employed to secure them is almost certain to be nil. Eight Englishmen, four Welshmen and three Irishmen walk on to a rugby field - it has all the makings of a spectacularly bad joke.

barry.glendenning@guardian.co.uk
Stand Up for the Ulster Men

RIP Nevin Spence 1990 - 2012
User avatar
jamesie
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 4612
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:22 am
Location: Islington London
Contact:

Re: An Irishman's View of the Lions Selection

Post by jamesie »

ding, i simply can’t agree with this cr*p… disgraceful!
ding dong2u wrote:Read this today in the Grauniad and I couldn't agree with him more.

Why I won't be supporting Woodward's English Lions
this diatribe makes me sick… it’s a british and irish lions tour to new zealand! It doesn’t get any bigger… we’ve been waiting 4 years for this, now lets get behind the team no-matter what (lets not spit our dummies out here, just ‘cos we haven’t got a big representation)… wise up!!!
ding dong2u wrote:at the expense of the more inventive Welsh and Irish whose performances in the warm-up matches, never mind the Six Nations, have earned them every right to feel aggrieved at this totally predictable snub
eh, did I miss something? what irish inventiveness??? mistimed runs, countless knock-ons, a robotic place kicking game, and a predictive game plan do not constitute inventiveness… the welsh maybe showed a little inventiveness but certainly not the irish… dems the cold, hard facts… live with it.
ding dong2u wrote:Was it for this that thousands of boorish, deck shoe-wearing city boys took six weeks out of the city to aroo-cha-cha halfway around the world at great expense in order to stand on pub tables with their trousers around their ankles while drinking pints of lager through a sock? It probably was, but they're all floppy-fringed imbeciles and quite frankly the rest of us deserve better.
yawn… :roll:
ding dong2u wrote:Well I'm sorry Sir Clive, but it may come as a huge shock to you to learn that there are those of us in Great Britain and Ireland who are of the strong opinion that as far as this Lions Tour is concerned, winning most certainly is not everything.
wrong… on a lions tour winning is everything!!!

we’re almost playing ourselves out of the tests here with our constant whinging… this guff about not supporting the lions incenses me. wise up, raise your game and get behind them FFS! :evil:
User avatar
ding dong2u
Red Hand Ambassador
Posts: 2030
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:55 pm
Location: University of Walamaloo

Post by ding dong2u »

Jamesie sit down and take a load off .....lighten up lad :!: I think the piece was done quite tongue in cheek but with a barb in the comment. Can't imagine anyone from these islands not supporting the Lions in their quest to beat the BABs, after all it doesn't happen often. The point is that Woodworm's selections have gone against all of his pre-tour whitterings about form. I very much want the Lions to win tomorrow but if they lose I want them to lose well so he doesn't have the excuse of putting out two thirds of the English over the hill mob again next week.
Stand Up for the Ulster Men

RIP Nevin Spence 1990 - 2012
User avatar
pwrmoore
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 11885
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:51 am
Location: East Belfast

Post by pwrmoore »

Jamesie,

I will be supporting the Lions on Saturday.

But I'll be doing it in spite of all dubious behaviour of SCW. The lions is (are?) bigger than any one coach or any one tour and because of this they'll have me cheering them on on Saturday. But I am sympathetic to a lot of what was written in this article.

The selections have patently not been made on form - neither on form before the tour, nor on form in the tour matches to date. The selection of the FB, wings and centres is dubious to say the least.

The choice of Dawson ahead of Cusiter, and Thompson ahead of anyone on the bench seem pretty hard to justify too.

There shouldn't be national quotas in the make up of the team - but when one nation dominates the team's make-up despite their lousy recent national form questions deserve to be asked.
Paul.

C'mon Ulsterrrrrrrrr! :red:
User avatar
jamesie
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 4612
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:22 am
Location: Islington London
Contact:

Post by jamesie »

sorry ding, have just sat in a darkened room, listened to some dolphin music and counted to 10 in swahili… phew! :roll: :drunken:

i hear what you’re saying, but my fire's have been stoked after watching living with lions ’97, on sky sports these past couple of nights… :twisted: would hate to think of the camp in NZ getting wind of any discontent back home :?

lets go with saint baldy on this one and if he makes a b*lls of it then we can get the knives out :shock:
User avatar
ding dong2u
Red Hand Ambassador
Posts: 2030
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:55 pm
Location: University of Walamaloo

Post by ding dong2u »

Jamesie I just hope Woodworm can get these guys pumped up too 'cos they ain't half gonna need it. There have been some very dubious selections and I fear that the backrow isn't up to it and that they won't get 80 out of either Wilko or Back. What scares me most is that just like England of old they don't have a plan b cos there isn't anything on the bench that's going to change much :roll:
Stand Up for the Ulster Men

RIP Nevin Spence 1990 - 2012
User avatar
barney
Red Hand Ambassador
Posts: 2078
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 10:48 am
Location: Down Mexico Way

Post by barney »

"place-kicker keeps the scoreboard ticking over three points at a time"

It worked for Neil Jenkins in the second test in 97 and I don't remember too many people complaining about it.
User avatar
ding dong2u
Red Hand Ambassador
Posts: 2030
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:55 pm
Location: University of Walamaloo

Post by ding dong2u »

If we win we won't quibble too much with the methodology. Just don't think the team selection does justice to the ability within the tour party.
Stand Up for the Ulster Men

RIP Nevin Spence 1990 - 2012
User avatar
barney
Red Hand Ambassador
Posts: 2078
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 10:48 am
Location: Down Mexico Way

Post by barney »

The attrition rate could be high if this turns into a forward-dominated slug-it-out.

The Celts may yet have a major role to play in this series.
User avatar
colinh
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 5444
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:16 am
Contact:

Post by colinh »

Must admit I have not really followed the Lions yet as I refuse to succumb to the Murdock empire not out of any high moral beliefs but out of a genuine native tightness as it will probably not make any difference to the mogul if I suscribe or not.

But I do not really care how the Lions win as long as they win. If they were to play 8 man stick it up your jumper rugby, who cares or for that matter if the whole team was made up of 5 foot gremlins from Southport. The main thing is for the Lions to win and to win by half a point if necessary. Rugby is all about winning and nothing else on the field. That's it.

If you look at the performances of the home nations I am not surprised the team is half England. Ireland never stepped up to the plate, Scotland were awful save one or two players and Wales won with a mediocre side that produced a few players of genuine world class but they were a few. One of which flew out as a replacement. England were dreadfully coached by Robinson but were very unlucky against both Ireland and Wales and had theya kicker would have put France to the sword. The standard of the 6 nations was poor and very few inspired to give confidence at this level. Even Darcy who I have seen do wonderous things has been quiet.

Matt Dawson told Paul OConnell that in real test rugby this is a place that he will never have been before. This is something else. But we shall see how tomorrow goes.

Colin :twisted:
Post Reply