RBS 6 Nations 2017

[Dave]

Project signings are more difficult to turn into internationals than you might think. It is unusual to find a player as good as Payne, the vast resources at NZs disposal will always have unused talent, but I still don't think we saw the best of him. Mainly due to injury but also being played out of position. Stander is an absolute find, he came fairly obviously rejected by SA who are in complete disarray anyway. Finding other players of that quality will not be easy.

Herbst will be too injury prone to ever get capped. Too many Kearney's around for Ludik to get a look in. I thought Diack would be the new Jamie Heaslip when he signed. Massive unit with the softest hands and a lineout maestro. Bundee Aki will be a great option when he becomes IQ but there aren't too many others I can think of. I don't get the five year thing, it will kill it off and we will be weaker for it.

[Neil F]

Dave, my concern is actually less to do with Ireland, despite the wording and is more about the quality of players at provincial level. Not only are there very few projects who are first choice, or thereabouts, for Ireland, there aren't that many (certainly of those already qualified) that are first choice at their province. Ulster are richer for Diack and Ludik but Diack definitely isn't in a first-choice Ulster 23, let alone the XV and Ludik probably isn't, either. Strauss at Leinster, ditto these days. The general value of the whole thing needs to be considered, if you ask me. I'm really not sure Stander and Payne, as the only two projects who've ever been first choice for Ireland, is a terribly good return on investment, even if I think both have been integral to some massively impressive Ireland performances over the last calendar year.

[Dave]

Dave, my concern is actually less to do with Ireland, despite the wording and is more about the quality of players at provincial level. Not only are there very few projects who are first choice, or thereabouts, for Ireland, there aren't that many (certainly of those already qualified) that are first choice at their province. Ulster are richer for Diack and Ludik but Diack definitely isn't in a first-choice Ulster 23, let alone the XV and Ludik probably isn't, either. Strauss at Leinster, ditto these days. The general value of the whole thing needs to be considered, if you ask me. I'm really not sure Stander and Payne, as the only two projects who've ever been first choice for Ireland, is a terribly good return on investment, even if I think both have been integral to some massively impressive Ireland performances over the last calendar year.

No I don't think it is either but if we are getting squad players then it still has value to us. We are severely hampered by having to sign IQ players especially when even 4th choice Leinster forwards have no intention of coming here.

Disagree about Ludik, I think he would in the 23 if we had everyone fit.

[222toHounslow]

I can confirm that I couldn't give a toss about Ireland or the six nations.

Nucititwank has succeeded in alienating this Nordie so all I ask is to make sure our players come back uninjured

[BaggyTrousers]

Dave, my concern is actually less to do with Ireland, despite the wording and is more about the quality of players at provincial level. Not only are there very few projects who are first choice, or thereabouts, for Ireland, there aren't that many (certainly of those already qualified) that are first choice at their province. Ulster are richer for Diack and Ludik but Diack definitely isn't in a first-choice Ulster 23, let alone the XV and Ludik probably isn't, either. Strauss at Leinster, ditto these days. The general value of the whole thing needs to be considered, if you ask me. I'm really not sure Stander and Payne, as the only two projects who've ever been first choice for Ireland, is a terribly good return on investment, even if I think both have been integral to some massively impressive Ireland performances over the last calendar year.

Neil, if I may say so, whilst I acknowledge the primary intent of projects is to enhance Ireland, it should not be viewed solely in those terms. Several have enhanced provinces considerably, bulked out the major gaps in all provinces at one time or another. I think we compare them erroneously to the success of many NIQs rather than seeing them as decent material to work with who may have potential.

Take Wiehahn Herbst, he looks to me that he's not going to be an Ireland TH, but, when he was signed there was a pretty bleak outlook for THs when Ross finally blew a gasket, so it was a sound idea. Now if it only benefits Ulster in the long run, well, for my money it was still worth the punt.

Too many see projects as failures if they don't make a significant test impact & when you look at the market you are surfing there just has to be a degree of hit and miss about it. Stretch that time period to 5 years and it becomes even more of a gamble. For me 5 years might as well be 20, it's unworkable effectively.

My the way chaps, I thought there was a thread for this.

[rumncoke]

3 years is a fair period of time out of a career which is usually 10-12 years with a peak of about 5 years if the player can remain injury free.

I personally would prefer to invest in a project than an ex International who signs for the money ( the word is ex not current)

Although there are and have been notable exceptions we have been fortunate with ex saffers others have failed to perform or go the distance.

Those talk Diack down are only basically seeing what they want to see in my book Diack because he can play in the second and back row would always be in my 23 and depending on the opposition XV . The fact is every squad will have injuries and no player can go through the season from August to May with out a couple of weeks rest.




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[rumncoke]

3 years is a fair period of time out of a career which is usually 10-12 years with a peak of about 5 years if the player can remain injury free.

I personally would prefer to invest in a project than an ex International who signs for the money ( the word is ex not current)

Although there are and have been notable exceptions we have been fortunate with ex saffers others have failed to perform or go the distance.

Those talk Diack down are only basically seeing what they want to see in my book Diack because he can play in the second and back row would always be in my 23 and depending on the opposition XV . The fact is every squad will have injuries and no player can go through the season from August to May with out a couple of weeks rest.




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[davejohnston]

It's easy to read to much into these things - but has Paddy just slipped down the pecking order.
Interview with Schmit here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38742900

"The first time I saw Rory play for Dolphin against Belvedere he had a fantastic game at 10," said Schmidt.
"There's a big difference between that and Murrayfield but he would be the guy who could cover there.
"We've also got Paddy Jackson available obviously."

So is Schmidt going back to versatile centers as cover for the 10? Or is he saying Paddy would be backup, but Rory could also be on the bench ?

[BaggyTrousers]

Those talk Diack down are only basically seeing what they want to see in my book Diack because he can play in the second and back row would always be in my 23 and depending on the opposition XV . The fact is every squad will have injuries and no player can go through the season from August to May with out a couple of weeks rest.

Ron'n I'm assuming your book hasn't made the bestseller list? With guff like that about Diack, there won't be many buyers.

Think back to last Saturday, Robbie in the 2nd row, scrum engages reverse gear and 14 easy starting points ultimately cost us the game. Sure you can blame Johnny Simpson for being trounced and wee shanners for being no better than p, but the pack as a unit when flying back for the second of those tries. Robbie can just about get away in 2nd row against rubbish but that's it.

[Dave]

Those talk Diack down are only basically seeing what they want to see in my book Diack because he can play in the second and back row would always be in my 23 and depending on the opposition XV . The fact is every squad will have injuries and no player can go through the season from August to May with out a couple of weeks rest.

Ron'n I'm assuming your book hasn't made the bestseller list? With guff like that about Diack, there won't be many buyers.

Think back to last Saturday, Robbie in the 2nd row, scrum engages reverse gear and 14 easy starting points ultimately cost us the game. Sure you can blame Johnny Simpson for being trounced and wee shanners for being no better than p, but the pack as a unit when flying back for the second of those tries. Robbie can just about get away in 2nd row against rubbish but that's it.

Rum has always had a boner for Diack. Diack is brill and no one else can see it except Rum.

[UlsterAreBrill]

It's easy to read to much into these things - but has Paddy just slipped down the pecking order.
Interview with Schmit here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38742900

"The first time I saw Rory play for Dolphin against Belvedere he had a fantastic game at 10," said Schmidt.
"There's a big difference between that and Murrayfield but he would be the guy who could cover there.
"We've also got Paddy Jackson available obviously."

So is Schmidt going back to versatile centers as cover for the 10? Or is he saying Paddy would be backup, but Rory could also be on the bench ?

Don't think so, PJ has the bench spot guaranteed. Carberry is injured also so we only really have one fully fit fly half considering Sexton isn't guaranteed to last a full game. Also now with Sexton frailty now it's more important to have a 10 on the bench who can cover 12/13 rather than a 12 who can cover 10. In reality Carberry is the best bench option as he can cover everything bar 9 and wing

[Snipe Watson]

Those talk Diack down are only basically seeing what they want to see in my book Diack because he can play in the second and back row would always be in my 23 and depending on the opposition XV . The fact is every squad will have injuries and no player can go through the season from August to May with out a couple of weeks rest.

Ron'n I'm assuming your book hasn't made the bestseller list? With guff like that about Diack, there won't be many buyers.

Think back to last Saturday, Robbie in the 2nd row, scrum engages reverse gear and 14 easy starting points ultimately cost us the game. Sure you can blame Johnny Simpson for being trounced and wee shanners for being no better than p, but the pack as a unit when flying back for the second of those tries. Robbie can just about get away in 2nd row against rubbish but that's it.

Rum has always had a boner for Diack. Diack is brill and no one else can see it except Rum.

I wonder is this shifting of him into the second row an attempt to resurrect his flagging career.

[rumncoke]

Baggy one man doesn't make or break a pack and well you know it the pack went backwards because Bordeaux where substantially heavier all round .

And the fact that they were makes the decision to kick for the corner instead of the points totally weird, because unless like Leinster you have plan B to score if you fail to get " go forward " on the first push your going nowhere fast .

Diack was picked for mobility
to run their fat forwards but it took Ulster 20 minutes to get hold of the ball .

Bobby D is definitely not the worst forward to play for Ulster this year .

It would have been easy to transfer Henderson in to the second row for the scrums of management had thought Diack could perform in the set piece .

I have stated before it was a game Ulster could have won but too many mistakes and too many past their sell by meant they didn't deserve to .

The fact is while losing so many games except for the Leinster game Ulster could easily have won them .

Which is of course what galls .



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[BaggyTrousers]

Baggy one man doesn't make or break a pack and well you know it the pack went backwards because Bordeaux where substantially heavier all round .

And the fact that they were makes the decision to kick for the corner instead of the points totally weird, because unless like Leinster you have plan B to score if you fail to get " go forward " on the first push your going nowhere fast .

Diack was picked for mobility
to run their fat forwards but it took Ulster 20 minutes to get hold of the ball .

Bobby D is definitely not the worst forward to play for Ulster this year .

It would have been easy to transfer Henderson in to the second row for the scrums of management had thought Diack could perform in the set piece .

I have stated before it was a game Ulster could have won but too many mistakes and too many past their sell by meant they didn't deserve to .

The fact is while losing so many games except for the Leinster game Ulster could easily have won them .

Which is of course what galls .

You are right that one man doesn;t make or break it unless he is the prop that can't cope and in fairness to Robbie it was Franco behind Simpson as you would expect to have your better scrummaging 2nd row behind the TH, but if you think a saft Saffer doesn't impact on the scrum, well ............ you must do.

Of course you are right too about the fact that we have been losing games that were there to be won, the main problem last week, apart from the soft 14 points we gave them, was that we had to go into our bench very early and when we got the lead they still had a load of fresh legs to get them back into it. Of course we had a welter of errors and a real bit of bad luck when Darren flipped the ball on and it took an horrendous bounce, any normal sort of bounce & it was a simple try.

Still, on the bright side, we will win the next 7 games.

[Jackie Brown]

I can confirm that I couldn't give a toss about Ireland or the six nations.

Nucititwank has succeeded in alienating this Nordie so all I ask is to make sure our players come back uninjured

The last few years I've been in agreement, however, I'm quite looking forward to watching some decent rugby. Maybe that was the plan all along, make us hate the clusterfeck that is Ulster more than Lucifuhrer.

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