Henderson

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Spiffsson
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Henderson

Post by Spiffsson »

If they are not going to play him at 6, Henderson confirmed against Wales that he is Ireland's No.1 lock (and yes, that includes POC). He gets better with every game.
As for the rest of the team today - only Dave Kearney put his hand up, and will travel with Bowe and Trimble. Fitz again buzzes like a bee but achieves nothing.
Heaslip tried his best in a backrow that was outplayed, with both POM and Murphy looking lightweight and out of their depth. SOB did not look much better when he showed up - has he lost too much beef?
Quarter finals? We'll be lucky to get out of the group.
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Re: Henderson

Post by nonplussed »

Think Murphy and Fitzgerald may have played themselves out of selection. Earls played well


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Re: Henderson

Post by bazzaj »

Refuse to judge our chances based on these friendlies.
Nice leg stretchers for Sexton and Murray but Tipiruc and his mates certainly were allowed to dominate due to Ireands poor support and clearing out.

There is a reason why Tipiruc and Hendy were the best 2 players on the pitch as they are class acts that had something to prove.
Wales also attached more significance to the result on the back of what happened in Cardiff and therefore were operating at a higher level of intensity.
Sexton, POC and Murray were just operating out of second gear.
They are the big game players.
Throw Best Healy Payne SOB into the mix and that makes a lot of difference too.

There are a lot of reasons why Ireland could potentially bomb at this world cup but losing this game isn't one of them.
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Spiffsson
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Re: Henderson

Post by Spiffsson »

nonplussed wrote:Think Murphy and Fitzgerald may have played themselves out of selection. Earls played well


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But what backrower would replace Murphy at this stage with TOD already out? Murphy can play all three positions, but is not outstanding in any of them. Someone like Dominic Ryan might have been useful on the squad. Conan is not ready for the RWC. Still think Ireland are missing a trick by not playing Henderson at 6 in a warmup game for a bit of bulk and dog in the backrow.
I hope you are right about Fitz - but Joe seems to like him for some unknown reason.
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Re: Henderson

Post by scrum5 »

Superb, Joe has to start him, players who helped their cause today D Kearney, players who didn't Jackson, Earls, Fitzgerald and Ryan, Ryan in particular was disappointing.
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Shan
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Re: Henderson

Post by Shan »

There's no trick being missed. We all, including Joe knows he can play at 6 if it is ever required. He doesn't need to wear 6 on his jersey in any warm up game for us to know this. Everything he did well today he'd have done exactly the same no matter what number he was wearing and I'd suggest he would have drifted out of the game from the 50 minute mark* as he did today if he was wearing 6 as well.


That not a go at him by the way. He worked his ass off but he was spent for the last 30, unsurprisingly. Even with that he was the best of Ireland's forwards.



The most important thing for me is that for the important games we need to find a way to get both Hendo and POM on the pitch together. Without POM we'll struggle at the breakdown. Hendo is top man for bulldozing guys the f-ck out of it. There'll be f-ck all to bulldoze without POM in there doing all the shítty work....as we saw today after he was gone.......and all that despite the fact he was out of his league. Mother of feck.
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Re: Henderson

Post by ruckover »

I fail to grasp why this needs a separate thread.
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Shan
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Re: Henderson

Post by Shan »

scrum5 wrote: Ryan in particular was disappointing.
Agreed. He was not giving it enough from his seat in the stand. Clearly not up to it.
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Re: Henderson

Post by Shan »

ruckover wrote:I fail to grasp why this needs a separate thread.

Spiffy's obsession with Hendo.

You have been helped. :D
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Re: Henderson

Post by BaggyTrousers »

Spiffsson wrote:
nonplussed wrote:Think Murphy and Fitzgerald may have played themselves out of selection. Earls played well


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But what backrower would replace Murphy at this stage with TOD already out? Murphy can play all three positions, but is not outstanding in any of them. Someone like Dominic Ryan might have been useful on the squad. Conan is not ready for the RWC. Still think Ireland are missing a trick by not playing Henderson at 6 in a warmup game for a bit of bulk and dog in the backrow.
I hope you are right about Fitz - but Joe seems to like him for some unknown reason.
NO Spiffer he certainly can't, somebody can hand him a 7 shirt but no matter how tight, he'll never fill it. He doesn't strike me as an 8 either I have to say, to lightweight. Heaslip is a relative lightweight for an 8, but he has an ability to cover ground that would make most 7s blush. And 6? Well, he's well down the rankings.

The truth is Murphy is a decent player, but he is no more a great player than Quiff, he just provides a versatile option, the New Quiff but not as annoying.

Let me educate the class. Anyone remember Ireland scoring tries for fun against Wales a few weeks back? Guess what the difference was? Go on, tell me. No?

OK here it is, Ireland had a 12 & 13 who can not only score tries themselves but they can both pass a ball. Then you play a Scotland team, worse by a distance than that Welsh selection & you stick D'Arcy at 12 whammo, you have a backline that doesn't move their legs never mind the ball. Stuck in treacle. Today? A guy at 13 who is clueless, there was never any prospect of Ireland moving the ball barring the telegraphed Sexton loop. Fitzgerald had no idea either where he was or the ball was for most of the game.

I question FibberJoe, I question why do you spurn two full warm up matches by making selections that simply mean you have no option to use your backline for anything but kick chasing & today both the kicking & chasing was distinctly average, despite Dave Kearney's best efforts.

I'm not bothered that Sexton was rusty, I am bothered that there has been not a hint of the backs playing rugby since Cardiff, Ireland might just conceivably top the group playing boring conservative kick & chase, SA won the thing in 2007 playing kick & chase against England playing bish & bosh. Ireland should have ambition to be better than quarterfinalists but I doubt that will happen if this is the approach.

Next week, I expect Engand to bludgeon & run rings round Ireland, a chastening experience awaits, you simply can't switch it on & off & Ireland today were lucky even to get within a TMO shout of winning, they deserved nothing from a dismal dismal display.
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Re: Henderson

Post by BaggyTrousers »

scrum5 wrote:Superb, Joe has to start him, players who helped their cause today D Kearney, players who didn't Jackson, Earls, Fitzgerald and Ryan, Ryan in particular was disappointing.
I expect better from you Scrum, Earls did well barring a couple of early mishandles, it's a tough gig playing wing for FibberJoe, you are likely to get as many as no chances to do anything but tackle & chase kicks. Said it before I'll say it again, all well and good or Fibber as long as he's winning. Watch the reaction when we cough against England & lose in the quarterfinal against NZ. >EW

Good times may just have ended. :shock: Don't give me any bullshit about phoney wars, that was dreadful muck & going to Twickenham, not what the Fibber will have wanted.

Dave Kearney was the main beneficiary today, Earls will have done enough defesively after his good attacking display in Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaadiff. Paddy Jackson is very much in the balance and I'd not be surprised to see him at Spanners next Friday night. Ryan is nailed on.

Fibber better hope that Rory, Church & Fat Ross stay fit, not much of a Welsh front row today but they were enough for our lot. Anybody else wonder is Cronin the, Murphy/Quiff of the front row?

Oh yeah, when push comes to shove, forget Hendo as no 1 lock. POC/Toner is locked in. The lineout imperative assures that, as it does the presence of POM who does more to disrupt the oppositions throw than any other Irish player. That and the breakdown are why he will start 6 when it matters. Hendo will bench , one of the perils of versatility, but then, for Murphy/Quiff players, it gets you a seat on the plane to Exeter. >EW
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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Re: Henderson

Post by bazzaj »

I think putting Irelands woes today at the feet of Fitzgerald is a little harsh Bagster considering he was operating off slower ball off the back foot at at times and against a full strength Welsh side rather than their reserves.
Cave or Earls would not have made any difference but a SOB or Best in the pack may have quickened the breakdown clearout to afford them more time and room.
We have our issues with our back play but today was about the breakdown where we were outclassed for the most part and to throw the ball out would have simply meant shovelling shyte.
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Re: Henderson

Post by BaggyTrousers »

bazzaj wrote:I think putting Irelands woes today at the feet of Fitzgerald is a little harsh Bagster considering he was operating off slower ball off the back foot at at times and against a full strength Welsh side rather than their reserves.
Cave or Earls would not have made any difference but a SOB or Best in the pack may have quickened the breakdown clearout to afford them more time and room.
We have our issues with our back play but today was about the breakdown where we were outclassed for the most part and to throw the ball out would have simply meant shovelling shyte.
Sweet Jesus Jizzer, can you not read? You'll find if you browse many many many words today, I place it almost everywhere, a scattergun approach to a disastrous all round selection & display.

If you pick out Fitzuseless from my words, you're operating with tunnel vision. That is not to overlook the fact that he was predictably as much use as a feather on a toilet brush but not my sole focus by any stretch.

Shame on you >EW :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Henderson

Post by Spiffsson »

bazzaj wrote:I think putting Irelands woes today at the feet of Fitzgerald is a little harsh Bagster considering he was operating off slower ball off the back foot at at times and against a full strength Welsh side rather than their reserves.
Cave or Earls would not have made any difference but a SOB or Best in the pack may have quickened the breakdown clearout to afford them more time and room.
We have our issues with our back play but today was about the breakdown where we were outclassed for the most part and to throw the ball out would have simply meant shovelling shyte.
To some extent yes. But that is not the major problem with Fitz. No matter what the conditions, he usually plays like a headless chicken, with little game-reading, structure or maturity. He runs around in circles until he disappears up his own fundamental orifice, and neither he, or his teammates, have a clue where he is going to be in a couple of steps, or what he is going to do when he gets there. For an experienced international, he seems to have no feel for the subtlties of the game. The lad has plenty of spirit and tries hard and I have nothing against him, but he does not deserve to be in the RWC squad ahead of his competitors. He's just not that good. Can't understand the Mexican media's love affair with him.
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Re: Henderson

Post by Snipe Watson »

Ireland created absolutely nothing in that game.
I don't know who it was that posted that POM was poor, but he was posting garbage. POM was magnificent in the first half and solid the rest of the game. Murphy was largely anonymous and Heaslip passable. Dave Kearney has backed up his good outing against Scotland and may have forced his way into the 31 possibly at the expense of Jones. Fitz did exactly what I expected, a lot of dancing feet for no real gain.
POC looked ordinary again, despite the assurances of others, I fear for his ability to get back up to top form at his age. Having said that he's such a warrior, he'll probably rise to the occasion.
Wales rushed up in defence and made life difficult. Tipuric was class and Wales really need to get him on the field.
Ireland will have benefited from that intense run out.
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