Steady as she goes.

[Snipe Watson]

A lot of people are still living in the days when we were the poor relations of southern hemisphere sides. NZ are still clearly the best team in the world, but there is not that much between the rest. Our players are good.

[rumncoke]

Rankings can be deceiving from the point of view that all teams are assumed to be of equal merit and all wins of equal merit with out regard to the location of the games played etc .

While ireland are ranked at this time as second I would still consider the All Blacks , South Africa . Australia and England to be stronger teams basically because they have stronger squads in depth . That does not mean that those sides will always beat the irish but that ireland have to raise their game to beat them.

Basically Injuries to Key Players can always weaken the Irish side to a greater extent than those listed at the moment the most vunerable positions are half back most of the other positions the difference between the first and second choice is not that noticable at International level ,

Which basically makes team selection a case of second guessing how the opposition will play and trying to ensure that any weaknesses a player may have will not be exploited by the opposition in the way they play eg would you select Zebo against a strong running wing but I might select Zebo before Trimble if I considered the opposition were going to play/ kick at the back 3 .

[Spiffsson]

Rankings can be deceiving from the point of view that all teams are assumed to be of equal merit and all wins of equal merit with out regard to the location of the games played etc .

While ireland are ranked at this time as second I would still consider the All Blacks , South Africa . Australia and England to be stronger teams basically because they have stronger squads in depth . That does not mean that those sides will always beat the irish but that ireland have to raise their game to beat them.

Basically Injuries to Key Players can always weaken the Irish side to a greater extent than those listed at the moment the most vunerable positions are half back most of the other positions the difference between the first and second choice is not that noticable at International level ,

Which basically makes team selection a case of second guessing how the opposition will play and trying to ensure that any weaknesses a player may have will not be exploited by the opposition in the way they play eg would you select Zebo against a strong running wing but I might select Zebo before Trimble if I considered the opposition were going to play/ kick at the back 3 .

Why? Trimble has shown time and again that he's a rock under the high ball and a powerful kick retun runner.

[ruckover]

Don't question Rum's knowledge. He knows all.

[BaggyTrousers]

Now as for the rest of this thread, to save Rocky the bother, I'm declaring it bullshite. I prefer to allow Wendyballists the ground, free and unencumbered when it comes to inane guff about who is the best.

Allow me to educate you. Few would declare Darren Cave amongst the best players in the world, however I would contend that he is amongst the very best at facilitating teammates to play at their best. It's a great ability that by no means all of the alleged greats share. This clearly and irrefutably confirms that in rugby, it is a futile notion of categorising positions and selecting a world order.

John Dawes was a Lions captain and test choice surrounded by stars but irreplaceable himself, despite an allegedly inferior skill range. Put it this way, as anyone who ever bought an MFI cabinet will know, without the glue it quickly falls apart.

[Spiffsson]

Now as for the rest of this thread, to save Rocky the bother, I'm declaring it bullshite. I prefer to allow Wendyballists the ground, free and unencumbered when it comes to inane guff about who is the best.

Allow me to educate you. Few would declare Darren Cave amongst the best players in the world, however I would contend that he is amongst the very best at facilitating teammates to play at their best. It's a great ability that by no means all of the alleged greats share. This clearly and irrefutably confirms that in rugby, it is a futile notion of categorising positions and selecting a world order.

John Dawes was a Lions captain and test choice surrounded by stars but irreplaceable himself, despite an allegedly inferior skill range. Put it this way, as anyone who ever bought an MFI cabinet will know, without the glue it quickly falls apart.

Well yer dead right about John Dawes. Probably the most underrated centre ever to play for the Lions, even though he was the captain. Not flash - but one of the best leaders, game readers, generals, organizers, passers of the ball you will ever see. He never seems to get a mention when it comes to lists of the Welsh greats, yet was right up there.
The threequarter line of Davies Dawes Gibson Duckham probably has not been bettered yet (esp with Edwards/John inside and JPR Williams at the back.)

[bazzaj]

Reckon that was the best ever.
Unless you count Irelands 91-92 back line of Staples, Carey, Danaher,Cunningham, Furlong,Russell and Bradley which cut apart the mighty All Blacks in their own back yard in Dunedin.

[BaggyTrousers]

Reckon that was the best ever.
Unless you count Irelands 91-92 back line of Staples, Carey, Danaher,Cunningham, Furlong,Russell and Bradley which cut apart the mighty All Blacks in their own back yard in Dunedin.

A heroic effort they put up, with the usual result, don't think Carey , Furlong or Russell ever played internationally again after that tour, whilst Danaher continued to be the subject of dogs abuse for a few seasons. Vinnie Cunningham sadly finished early through injury, Staples was overtaken and only the Brad remained for a long stint before someone found the keys to the room marked "Scrum Half Research and Development" Ireland now find themselves in the same boat, one very good if non-classical scrummie and feck all else.

Tell me Jizzer was that imprinted on your consciousness or did you have to look up the names? Fair effort either way, I'd almost forgotten the heroes of Carrisbrook.

[bazzaj]

Reckon that was the best ever.
Unless you count Irelands 91-92 back line of Staples, Carey, Danaher,Cunningham, Furlong,Russell and Bradley which cut apart the mighty All Blacks in their own back yard in Dunedin.

A heroic effort they put up, with the usual result, don't think Carey , Furlong or Russell ever played internationally again after that tour, whilst Danaher continued to be the subject of dogs abuse for a few seasons. Vinnie Cunningham sadly finished early through injury, Staples was overtaken and only the Brad remained for a long stint before someone found the keys to the room marked "Scrum Half Research and Development" Ireland now find themselves in the same boat, one very good if non-classical scrummie and feck all else.

Tell me Jizzer was that imprinted on your consciousness or did you have to look up the names? Fair effort either way, I'd almost forgotten the heroes of Carrisbrook.

I could have had a stab at it Bagster but admittedly forgot Furlong and had to back reference.
Also remember Small came on for Danaher towards the end
Given our side, the location and the opposition I would put that top of our greatest against the odds performance.
The following test demonstrated the true divide between those sides.

[BaggyTrousers]

Admirable honesty Jizzer, I don't suspect Neville remembers that back line himself, yet 3 converted tries at a time when Ireland could hardly buy a try nearly saw them home and heroes.

[rumncoke]

Spiff you have a short memory -- Trimble has been at sea before now under a high ball -- the worse night of rugby he ever had was against the Scarlets when Jones hoisted everything at him . Admittedly that was a few years ago and Trimble has worked hard and improved a great deal but he is not a natural kicker of a ball in the same way as Mcfadden , Kearney or Zebo watch trimble at international level if he catches it wide he automatically passes into Kearney .

Given the length of Kearney's kick and the better angle, it is a wise decision but to be honest it always looked programmed as a first option whereas with the other three named it looks like second option.

The reason for selecting Zebo is identified as being better under a high ball and he would be selected if the opposition were expected to opt for a kick and chase attack, and only in those circumstances,because everybody except the reddest Munsterman knows Zebo's tackle defence can only be described ,at best, as inconsistent .

IF you have paid any attention at all you will realise that my first" law " is " Any team that can't defend can't win "

[Snipe Watson]

That was then this is now Rummy. Trimble is a monumental returner of kicked ball on the hoof. Presonally anything that reduces the pingpong is good enough for me. Trimble scares the bejeepers out of defences when he runs at them.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Apologies OaK .....

..... watch trimble at international level if he catches it wide he automatically passes into Kearney .
Given the length of Kearney's kick and the better angle, it is a wise decision but to be honest it always looked programmed as a first option whereas with the other three named it looks like second option.

And that demonstrates why Trimble is the better and more intelligent player. Passing it inside if there is time should be the first consideration* of all of them as it give a better angle and better options for the kick. If the others (McFadden, other Kearney and Zebo) just kick without considering this option, it is them that are wrong.

* NB I said "consideration" not necessarily "option", as sometimes the first option will be to run the ball back rather than kicking, or to pass the ball to switch the play rather than kicking.

[Tazz #15]

Spiff you have a short memory -- Trimble has been at sea before now under a high ball -- the worse night of rugby he ever had was against the Scarlets when Jones hoisted everything at him . Admittedly that was a few years ago and Trimble has worked hard and improved a great deal but he is not a natural kicker of a ball in the same way as Mcfadden , Kearney or Zebo watch trimble at international level if he catches it wide he automatically passes into Kearney .

Given the length of Kearney's kick and the better angle, it is a wise decision but to be honest it always looked programmed as a first option whereas with the other three named it looks like second option.

The reason for selecting Zebo is identified as being better under a high ball and he would be selected if the opposition were expected to opt for a kick and chase attack, and only in those circumstances,because everybody except the reddest Munsterman knows Zebo's tackle defence can only be described ,at best, as inconsistent .

IF you have paid any attention at all you will realise that my first" law " is " Any team that can't defend can't win "

Can you point out a time in the last two years, since that night, when Trimby has been all at sea?

Yes he can't kick very well, but you then go on to point out that he passes it inside to make use of the seige gun boot of RK, or as Snipe points out, gets the head down, the forearm up and scares the bajaysus out of the opposition, so what's the issue?

Add that to the fact that I believe he is one of the very best kick chasers in the game, which is a crucial part of Ireland's game plan if the last two six nations are anything to go by, and he must start for Joe if he resembles anything near full fitness.

Not sure if you're aware of my first 'law' or not, it's 'any team that doesn't have the best players at their disposal on the pitch severely reduces their chances of winning'.


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[againstthehead]

On his recent form, I think Trimble owns the shirt but he's been out for a bit so interesting to see if he can pick up where he left off....