Irel;and v France

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loosehead1984
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Irel;and v France

Post by loosehead1984 »

So when it comes right down to it, Ireland and more importantly Joe S. need to win this weekend.

Without a victory what has Joe really achieved this season?

Oh I know people will say that he has brought a team from the bottom to the top of the table in one season... but really when you look at the number of home games he has had, is that really an achievement?

He has won the games at home that you would have expected to win and lost the rest.

A victory in France will be what he needs to make a case for a good first season in charge.

If not, then he is won 4 lost 4. With loses to Australia, New Zealand, England and France.

But we did beat Italy :roll:
stu
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Re: Irel;and v France

Post by stu »

Performances have vastly (and consistently) improved this season over last.
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Neil F
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Re: Irel;and v France

Post by Neil F »

stu wrote:Performances have vastly (and consistently) improved this season over last.
This.

Although, if I'm honest, I think the main progress is Schmidt's selection policy. Under Kidney, you could bet Ryan and Bowe, for example, would already have played in this tournament. The likes of Moore would probably have been nowhere near the pitch, even if they had made it into the squad. Toner and O'Mahony have come along massively in the international game. The likes of Tuohy didn't look that out of place. Guys like Henry and Trimble, who might not be (everyone's) first choice have been selected for every game, they have performed well. Even when the likes of Bowe and Zebo or O'Brien, are back to full fitness, these guys have now created competition for shirts that should stand Ireland in good stead going forward.

There are still places where Ireland are a little threadbare; fullback, scrum-half and the centre immediately come to mind but, actually, the rest is looking rather good. Considering where Ireland were last year, that's a big improvement. I doubt many would have thought Ireland would have had the opportunity for a Championship win, basically, in their own hands at this stage. Even fewer if you'd suggested Ireland would be missing Ryan, O'Brien, Bowe, Zebo, etc. If one fails to see the progress there, I fear one has one's head in the sand.

At this stage, I think it could be a big backwards step if Ireland don't win in France because the form shown in the tournament so far suggests they should. A failure to win does not mean that the season is a failure, given where we were after the drubbing by a weak Australia side in the Autumn. But the progress is still there, even if, conditional on what has already happened having happened, not to win would be a huge disappointment.
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Shan
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Re: Irel;and v France

Post by Shan »

Agreed Neil. The signs are quite positive for the future but we have some areas of concern which need to be resolved.

If we win the championship it will give Irish rugby a great lift and renewed hope for the future. But even if we were to fall short, and I don't think we will, we could still take positives from this campaign. The biggest positive of all being that we have genuine options across most positions and that when we look to our bench we are not worrying about having to use it. It is not perfect and I am sure most of us have a quibble with a selection or two but for me we look to be heading in the right direction.
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Re: Irel;and v France

Post by bazzaj »

I would like to add with France and England away this is traditionally a tough year for us.
No one has won away to any of the top 4 sides so far and that says a lot of how difficult this will be in France.
We have famously won there once in over 40 years no matter how bad the French have been.
On that occasion we played one of our best games ever, BOD scored a hat-trick, Hickey pulled of one of the great all time cover tackles and it still was only good enough to beat a poor French side that were 5th that year, by 2 points.
That is a measure of how good we will have to be and the task that lies ahead.

To pick up from what Neil and Shan are saying, Joe has given us a fighting chance playing a game plan everyone looks comfortable with and has made us a side that the players want to play for and supporters want to support.
The difference between this year and years previous is we now look like a team playing not at cross purposes but instead with a totally united purpose, harnessing the qualities each player from each provence has to offer with optimum effect.

A loss for me will be a set back of sorts but its the manner of performance that counts at this stage.
In other words to get stuffed will be bad but to lose in the manner that England managed to, could not be deemed a failure in my book.
Winning all our home games easily and losing both away games narrowly will be about as good as I anticipated at the start of the 6 nations but I have learnt through the years not to expect a win in Paris.
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Re: Irel;and v France

Post by Bangors »

In addition to the JS factor I believe the fact that ALL 4 Provinces are now in the habit of winning in France has removed the psychological barrier which used to hinder Ireland in Paris
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Russ
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Re: Irel;and v France

Post by Russ »

Bangors wrote:In addition to the JS factor I believe the fact that ALL 4 Provinces are now in the habit of winning in France has removed the psychological barrier which used to hinder Ireland in Paris
Are you actually suggesting all 4 pravinces work together?

You may have a look on munterchubes to see thon in action
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Re: Irel;and v France

Post by Bangors »

Russ you were reading too much into my post
All I was trying to point out was that no matter which province any player selected to wear the green of Ireland comes from they all have enjoyed WINNING on French soil
I hope that all those selected on Saturday are playing for Ireland and provincial rivalries are temporarily put to one side
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BaggyTrousers
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Re: Irel;and v France

Post by BaggyTrousers »

Loose Head you don't ring any bells with me as a chube but by the living Christ that was a grimly dumb a post as I've seen this year.

I assume you are trying to provoke some for the change in the Ireland set up is so obvious that you'd need to be an utter clown not to be aware of it.

A change that can't simply be measured by results, at this stage of course.
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loosehead1984
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Re: Irel;and v France

Post by loosehead1984 »

BaggyTrousers wrote:Loose Head you don't ring any bells with me as a chube but by the living Christ that was a grimly dumb a post as I've seen this year.
BT... I don't think of myself as a chube but you never know. :duck:

It may be a grim question and the timing maybe a little off, however, I thought I would ask it before the match this weekend than after it. You know what will happen next week in the post mortem if we lose!

Don't get me wrong, I am extremely glad to see Ireland in this position going into the last weekend of the 6Ns. I actually have a suspicion we are going to win on the weekend and take the whole thing!

In fairness, Joe has tried to blood some new players and has given a sense of purpose to the team. I will be the first to admit he has done a great job with that.

However, if we are not to measure our progress in the win/loss column, what other measure would you use? Would you measure our progress by our results in the Summer Tour? (Not likely in my opinion) Our depth of real cover in positions of concern? Our progress towards the World Cup and Squad development?

All I was saying is that the result column will look pretty average if we don't win this weekend and the season will be a fantastic success if we do. Fine margins indeed!

Again... how do you measure progress in professional sport, if not ultimately in wins and losses?
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Snipe Watson
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Re: Irel;and v France

Post by Snipe Watson »

Results are not the be all and end all.
I like the way Ireland are playing. I like the clearly defined game plan for each opponent.
I like the direction and I like the way the team are talking.
Joe has had a very good first season. I expect Ireland to win on Saturday and that good will read excellent.
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shamalicious
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Re: Irel;and v France

Post by shamalicious »

The game against Australia was poor, but Ireland have been playing more positively under Joe. He's done well so far.
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AndyB
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Re: Irel;and v France

Post by AndyB »

French team

France: 15 Brice Dulin, 14 Yoann Huget, 13 Mathieu Bastareaud, 12 Gaël Fickou , 11 Maxime Médard, 10 Remi Tálès, 9 Maxime Machenaud, 8 Damien Chouly, 7 Alexandre Lapandry, 6 Louis Picamoles, 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Pascal Papé, 3 Nicolas Mas, 2 Dimitri Szarzewski, 1 Thomas Domingo
Replacements:16 Guilhem Guirado, 17 Vincent Debaty, 18 Rabah Slimani, 19 Alexandre Flanquart, 20 Sébastien Vahaamahina, 21 Wenceslas Lauret, 22 Jean-Marc Doussain, 23 Maxime Mermoz
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Jackie Brown
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Re: Irel;and v France

Post by Jackie Brown »

Is there a reason why Parra is out of favour?
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AndyB
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Re: Irel;and v France

Post by AndyB »

Jackie Brown wrote:Is there a reason why Parra is out of favour?
Since when did the French need a reason to do something crazy?

There's a lot of size in that pack and with 6 forwards on the bench it looks like they may try to batter us.
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