In defence of Joe’s selection policy

[dcpete]

I was at the match last Saturday. Ireland were crap, a huge disappointment, but I still have faith in Joe long term so before tomorrow’s game I’m putting my neck on the line to defend his selection policy this autumn.

Squad expansion and young players

Joe was left with the weakest Ireland 1st XV we've had in a decade.

Like many coaches, he has talked of deepening the squad but he is actually doing it, aided by stronger provincial depth than we've had in years.

With at least 7 top line players injured in this AI series Joe will still have extended the squad depth by:
- using 30 players,
- giving 2 players debuts,
- provided game time to 5 players with 5 caps or less and,
- giving game time to another 6 players with under 10 caps

This is hugely important as we have about 20 games left until the World Cup. Unlike O’Sullivan Joe has shown he’s willing to use his squad and give youth its chance while not dropping young players in at the deep end like Kidney.

Hopefully this provides squad competition and a much stronger 1st XV (or for the modern game 1st XXIII.)

Leinster bias?

Joe’s been criticised for picking too many Leinster players but it’s worth remembering their success in recent years.

Additionally the Leinster players know how Schmidt selects his teams giving them a distinct advantage in training in these early days.

Finally had he a fully fit squad to choose from at least 5 fellas would push Leinster players out of tomorrow’s match day squad: Ryan and Henderson for Toner and McCarthy, Ferris or Henry for McLaughlin and Zebo and Gilroy for Fitzgerald and D Kearney.

By position

Loosehead:
Healey is obivious first choice. Schmidt clearly knows that Court is solid but never going to be a world beater so he gave McGrath his debut and the fella took his chance to impress.

Hooker:
With Strauss injured Best is head and shoulders above the rest.

Tighthead:
Ross is currently the only (semi)dependable player in a position of weakness. In 3 games he’s given 2 inexperienced players game time to develop.

Second Row:
Injury means Joe lost Ryan and Henderson, 2 players who’ll make the world cup squad. Sadly for Dan Tuohy Joe clearly sees Toner as his 4th choice, I image because while Tuohy is similar to the 3 other second rows Toner offers potential in the lineout that none of the others can.

Backrow:
Picks itself due to injury. Joe gave Chris Henry a chance to impress and talked him up. Who’s to know what chance Chris would have had to face Australia but certainly given the awful performance at the breakdown against the Aussies I think Chris would have been considered for a start tomorrow.
Tommy O'Donnell and Jordi Murphy were named in the squad announcement press release as unavailable due to injury, indicating Joe sees them as 2 for the future.

Scrumhalf:
His selection of Reddan was a failure and he’s acknowledged that by bringing Boss in, meaning he’s giving 3 scrumhalves gametime. It would have been nice to see Marmion in the squad but Joe must not think he’s ready yet, a slight worry as the 2 Leinster boys will be 35 by the end of the 2015 World Cup.

Outhalf:
Sexton is obvious first choice but Joe managed to give 3 outhalves game time. He clearly sees Jackson as the second best game management outhalf but Madigan as offering more coverage off the bench. As he says himself: “If Johnny didn’t take the pitch then Paddy Jackson would have started at 10. I think Paddy did very well against Samoa so we would have confidence in him.” Madigan? “Again, it is just coverage. If we get an injury to somebody like Gordon D’Arcy.”

Inside centre:
He gave Marshall a start against Australia but it's hard to argue with his decision to trust the experience of the most capped centre partnership in world rugby for a match against the World’s best side. He has had the decency to allow Luke to play for Ulster last night.

Outside centre:
O’Driscoll is Ireland’s greatest, he’s on the wane but there are few challengers. Henshaw touted as having a long-term future at 13 got game time against Australia.

Darren Cave is the one omission from the squad I can’t fathom as he’s been consistently strong for Ulster.

Wings:
Bowe hasn’t played well but is Ireland’s greatest ever winger, McFadden only started due to injuries but played well.

I was surprised Trimble didn’t make the squad but the fella picked ahead of him, Dave K took his chance with 2 tries on debut and as great as Trimble is for Ulster he is somewhat one-dimensional and has at times failed to impress for Ireland.

Fullback:
Sadly at the moment there is no-one to challenge an off-form Kearney. Of those who could be considered as having an outside claim, Zebo, Gilroy, Earls have been injured, Fitzgerald and Jones have been only recently returned from injury, while 20 year old Henshaw was given some game time against Australia.

[ruckover]

Squad expansion - if he was expanding the squad then why has Tuohy not been given a chance at lock. Or anybody else at 13 in case of an injury to BOD?

Young players - Stephen Archer and Dave Kearney are the only two, the former being way out of his depth and the latter being a Leinsterman who Schmidt is familar with. I think Michael Allen could do just as good a job as Kearney does.

Leinster bias - 16.5 Leinstermen in the team for tomorrow very much suggests Leinster bias. They're good, but not 70% of the international team good.

[dcpete]

Squad expansion - if he was expanding the squad then why has Tuohy not been given a chance at lock. Or anybody else at 13 in case of an injury to BOD?

Young players - Stephen Archer and Dave Kearney are the only two, the former being way out of his depth and the latter being a Leinsterman who Schmidt is familar with. I think Michael Allen could do just as good a job as Kearney does.

Leinster bias - 16.5 Leinstermen in the team for tomorrow very much suggests Leinster bias. They're good, but not 70% of the international team good.

Did you read my post?!

I cover all your gripes but to restate:

Schmidt's expanding the squad by using 11 players with less than 10 caps.

The 11 include Archer who isn't great but he's the 3rd best tighthead we've got so needs developed and Dave K who took his chance, maybe Allen would have done the same but he's not a HEC starter for Ulster yet.

He's not given Touhy an opportunity because he rates 5 players more highly.

He hasn't tried anyone other than BOD, Kearney and Henshaw at 13 and 15 because except Cave they're all injured.

The 3 reasons for a perceived Leinster bias I discuss above and I'll not retype them thanks.

[Big Smoke Culchie]

Leinster weren't that impressive last year and only won the Pro12 final with the help of a ref out of his depth. They're even less impressive this year. The fact that Ulster can only scrape 3 players into the squad is a joke considering the form we had shown in Europe the previous two weekends and our performance last year. These selections aren't being made on form and that's what sh1ts me.

Darcy is past it and has been seriously over rated by the southern press for years. McCarthy is a joke. McLaughlin anywhere near an Ireland shirt is an embarrassment. I can't be bothered going through the rest of the squad. Oh yeah, Toner. If it wasn't so sh1t it would be funny.

[ruckover]

Did you read my post?! Yes

I cover all your gripes No you don't but to restate:

Schmidt's expanding the squad by using 11 players with less than 10 caps. That's just handing out caps, not expanding the squad. If he was expanding the squad, everyone in the original 38 should have got some game time, which they didn't.

The 11 include Archer who isn't great but he's the 3rd best tighthead we've got so needs developed and Dave K who took his chance, maybe Allen would have done the same but he's not a HEC starter for Ulster yet. In a full strength team, neither is Dave Kearney for Leinster.

He's not given Touhy an opportunity because he rates 5 players more highly. Toner, POC, McCarthy, presumably you are referring to Donnacha Ryan (which isn't proven yet), and who else? Besides, if he's increasing squad depth then Tuohy still should have got a chance.

He hasn't tried anyone other than BOD, Kearney and Henshaw at 13 and 15 because except Cave they're all injured. I'll give you that one to a degree, but in my opinion we needed to play someone at 13 besides BOD against at least Samoa. If he was injured this week then Henshaw was the incumbent and I wouldn't trust him at international level yet.

The 3 reasons for a perceived Leinster bias I discuss above and I'll not retype them thanks. Schmidt is now Ireland coach, not Leinster coach. It shouldn't matter that he's familiar with them, everybody should get a fair chance to impress rather than Schmidt picking who's familiar to him since that's what's easiest. What sort of a message does that send to non-Leinster players?

[dcpete]

Leinster weren't that impressive last year and only won the Pro12 final with the help of a ref out of his depth. They're even less impressive this year. The fact that Ulster can only scrape 3 players into the squad is a joke considering the form we had shown in Europe the previous two weekends and our performance last year. These selections aren't being made on form and that's what sh1ts me.

Darcy is past it and has been seriously over rated by the southern press for years. McCarthy is a joke. McLaughlin anywhere near an Ireland shirt is an embarrassment. I can't be bothered going through the rest of the squad. Oh yeah, Toner. If it wasn't so sh1t it would be funny.

Yep, D'Arcy is nowhere near the standards he produced at his best but against the best team in the World do you pick a player with 4 caps or one with 74?

Who is likely to deal better with the pressure, the greatly experienced guy or the young promising fella who showed last week that he's still very raw?

I think it's a close call and I trust Joe's judgement. I don't think Marshall has been badly treated and he will be great for Ireland in the near future.

McLaughlin wouldn't be selected if Ferris and Henry were fit.

2nd row is the most fraught selection and the one I am most dubious about. However if, as I suspect, Joe is playing what he deems as 4th choice lock behind Hendo, Ryan and O'Connell I see the merit in picking Toner. He has the potential to develop late like Luke Charteris and to offer the squad something different. McCarthy must be deemed to offer more physicality than Tuohy as he offers little else.

[Big Smoke Culchie]

Leinster weren't that impressive last year and only won the Pro12 final with the help of a ref out of his depth. They're even less impressive this year. The fact that Ulster can only scrape 3 players into the squad is a joke considering the form we had shown in Europe the previous two weekends and our performance last year. These selections aren't being made on form and that's what sh1ts me.

Darcy is past it and has been seriously over rated by the southern press for years. McCarthy is a joke. McLaughlin anywhere near an Ireland shirt is an embarrassment. I can't be bothered going through the rest of the squad. Oh yeah, Toner. If it wasn't so sh1t it would be funny.

Yep, D'Arcy is nowhere near the standards he produced at his best but against the best team in the World do you pick a player with 4 caps or one with 74?

Who is likely to deal better with the pressure, the greatly experienced guy or the young promising fella who showed last week that he's still very raw?

I think it's a close call and I trust Joe's judgement. I don't think Marshall has been badly treated and he will be great for Ireland in the near future.

McLaughlin wouldn't be selected if Ferris and Henry were fit.

2nd row is the most fraught selection and the one I am most dubious about. However if, as I suspect, Joe is playing what he deems as 4th choice lock behind Hendo, Ryan and O'Connell I see the merit in picking Toner. He has the potential to develop late like Luke Charteris and to offer the squad something different. McCarthy must be deemed to offer more physicality than Tuohy as he offers little else.

I'd have play'd Marshall full stop. If he's good enough he's old enough. He's never going to learn if he doesn't get a chance. The Aussies blood players against the ABs and Springboks and it doesn't do them too much harm.

McLaughlin is probably behind every flanker with a provisional contract. From an ulster perspective I'd have Diak and Wilson over him every time.

[dcpete]

Did you read my post?! Yes

I cover all your gripes No you don't but to restate:

Schmidt's expanding the squad by using 11 players with less than 10 caps. That's just handing out caps, not expanding the squad. If he was expanding the squad, everyone in the original 38 should have got some game time, which they didn't.
No, capping 38 players would be handing out caps, giving a limited number of inexperienced players a chance is expanding the squad responsibly.

The 11 include Archer who isn't great but he's the 3rd best tighthead we've got so needs developed and Dave K who took his chance, maybe Allen would have done the same but he's not a HEC starter for Ulster yet. In a full strength team, neither is Dave Kearney for Leinster.True but he has a couple more seasons of HEC experience.

He's not given Touhy an opportunity because he rates 5 players more highly. Toner, POC, McCarthy, presumably you are referring to Donnacha Ryan (which isn't proven yet), and who else? Besides, if he's increasing squad depth then Tuohy still should have got a chance.I'm confident Joe would pick O'Connell, Ryan, Henderson, Toner and McCarthy in that order.

He hasn't tried anyone other than BOD, Kearney and Henshaw at 13 and 15 because except Cave they're all injured. I'll give you that one to a degree, but in my opinion we needed to play someone at 13 besides BOD against at least Samoa. If he was injured this week then Henshaw was the incumbent and I wouldn't trust him at international level yet. I agree, sadly Joe's been put in that position by previous coaching mistakes.

The 3 reasons for a perceived Leinster bias I discuss above and I'll not retype them thanks. Schmidt is now Ireland coach, not Leinster coach. It shouldn't matter that he's familiar with them, everybody should get a fair chance to impress rather than Schmidt picking who's familiar to him since that's what's easiest. What sort of a message does that send to non-Leinster players? I agree, but didn't say that, I said the players are familiar with him which gives them an advantage as they know how to impress in training unless he's completely changed his coaching mentality since taking the new job. O'Connell said as much after the Aussie game. Over time as other players get to know Joe better this will change.

[dcpete]

I'd have play'd Marshall full stop. If he's good enough he's old enough. He's never going to learn if he doesn't get a chance. The Aussies blood players against the ABs and Springboks and it doesn't do them too much harm.

I agree with you to a certain extent.

The one caveat would be:

Say Marshall plays tomorrow and Ireland as many are predicting Ireland get demolished again, it could severly dent his confidence.

Especially if another outhalf was running through our 10/12 channel at will and Marshall was being blamed, guilty or not.

Just think how Jackson's confidence and performances suffered after the unfair criticism he took in the six nations.

[Big Smoke Culchie]

I'd have play'd Marshall full stop. If he's good enough he's old enough. He's never going to learn if he doesn't get a chance. The Aussies blood players against the ABs and Springboks and it doesn't do them too much harm.

I agree with you to a certain extent.

The one caveat would be:

Say Marshall plays tomorrow and Ireland as many are predicting Ireland get demolished again, it could severly dent his confidence.

Especially if another outhalf was running through our 10/12 channel at will and Marshall was being blamed, guilty or not.

Just think how Jackson's confidence and performances suffered after the unfair criticism he took in the six nations.

The southern press have happily slammed Ulster players for their performances in an Ireland shirt for years. Humph got it, Rory used to get it, Bowe used to get it, Trimble constantly gets it. He might as well get used it it now. The damage is done when he's dropped after the slagging. Like now.

[dcpete]

The southern press have happily slammed Ulster players for their performances in an Ireland shirt for years. Humph got it, Rory used to get it, Bowe used to get it, Trimble constantly gets it. He might as well get used it it now. The damage is done when he's dropped after the slagging. Like now.

Marshall didn't play like a confidence damaged man last night.

I agree the southern press can be harsh but they have rightly given the whole team a slagging this week!

What I disagree with is the press unfairly singling out a player.

Jackson was unfairly singled out last year and I fear if Marshall were to play tomorrow and Ireland underperformed he could be scapegoated due to the cumulative effect of the press refocusing on his perceived mistakes last week.

He now avoids that and if he performs well in the HEC has every chance to be first choice come the 6 nations.

[Gael]

It shouldn't matter that he's familiar with them

Of course it should.

I'm with you dcpete. A lot of unfair criticism over a new coach who picked up possibly the worst job in international rugby and going with what he knows.

[BaggyTrousers]

DC Pete, I congratulate you for a spirited effort to defend the indefensible. I am in the unfortunate position of not being remotely arsed enough to respond in any complete way, so I will simply say I disagree on an embarrassingly large number of points.

[BaggyTrousers]

Leinster bias - 16.5 Leinstermen in the team for tomorrow very much suggests Leinster bias. They're good, but not 70% of the international team good.

As I said to a friend last night, Josef is making an incredible job of alienating the entire country outside of Leinster. He is achieving what it took Deccie a few seasons to do in record time. He hails from NZ and has a distinctly European name so I assume he probably comes from the Gardiner Street Schmidts.

I am not in the habit of ever cheering against my own team but tomorrow will probably be as close as I have ever come to doing so.

[againstthehead]

To be honest I don't think Joe has go the selection too wrong. It's probably about the strongest side available.
Plenty of folk on this board have slagged Marshall off for this distribution so ye can't complain too much if d'arcy is getting the nod. Toner is an odd one - i don't rate him at all but perhaps he can cause havoc at the lineout....

Cave is okay, but not international class IMHO, same with trimble.

Delighted not to see too many ulster players anyway:
- less chance of injuries
- less chance of getting blamed for ireland being pish
- less chance of losing much-needed confidence