Lions Tour of NZ 2017

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Russ
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by Russ »

222toHounslow wrote:Quite simply, not enough ass slaps, whoops, high fives and loops.

Utter disgrace
ABs skill levels meant there were minimal knock ons to celebrate

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BaggyTrousers
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by BaggyTrousers »

bazzaj wrote:I didn't say he favoured any side Bagster it's just you were highlighting the Lions illegality when I saw New Zealand getting away with collapsing mauls coming in from the side, off their feet in rucks particularly on clear out.
Also we are talking a yellow for Teo. an offside pen at a crucial stage in the second half when they were scrambling to prevent a try which was a cynical yellow as you'll see.
That's off the top of my head through a haze of guiness.

As for saying the Lions could win only an idiot would say they can't win.
Theres always a chance.
I learnt that in 1999 when I wrote off an unperforming French sides chances of defeating the All Blacks in a world cup semi.

Never made that mistake since.
You are very good at this business of "I didn't say XYZ" when your words absolutely imply something without actually using the words. I'll give you this, it is a skill............... well it is if you wish to constantly have the "I didn't say XYZ" as a regular backstop but you know as well as I do that you were suggesting that NZ got away with murder. They didn't and that is all there is to it.

Similarly, you rely a lot on covering your ringpiece with "they could win" but of course "I never said they will win", the old backstop again, never let yourself be said to have been wrong when given your talk over weeks you clearly believed they had a damn good chance.

There is no major sporting event that one team strictly speaking can't win, the rules/laws of all sports allow for the fact that it is a contest, so bluffers such as yourself and your mate in Auckland can talk up the team you support with "can" & "might" in the certainty that you have your backstop. Just semantic bullshit Jizzer, nothing more, nothing less.

If you are right that Cockers was alone in saying they would win, fair play to him, even if he didn't fully believe it, he had the courage of his convictions, not using weasel words in his expectations, so ensuring as you and others did that you could always use the get out card - "I didn't say XYZ". It's very easy to be expert when you never commit yourself, right?

G'wan Jizzer and give my two fuc'king heads peace. :lol: :lol: :lol:
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by bazzaj »

So what exactly am I accused of saying Bagster?
Xyz??

Do you want me to give you credit for predicting a New Zealand victory at Eden Park?
Its not exactly the stuff of Nostradamus is it?
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BaggyTrousers
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by BaggyTrousers »

I see Gatland accusing NZ at "diving at Murray's standing leg when kicking".

It is very clear that they did try to unsettle him early in the game and caught him "acceptably late" several times, as I posted during the first half. True though it is, I blame Murray for gurning about it against Weegies some months back and simply drawing the world's attention to the fact that here is a simple way to get at him and knock him out of his stride. I think it did work for them yesterday, Murray was ok, kicked well in the main but pretty quiet.

He says it best when he says fuc'k all should be his lesson.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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BaggyTrousers
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by BaggyTrousers »

bazzaj wrote:So what exactly am I accused of saying Bagster?
Xyz??

Do you want me to give you credit for predicting a New Zealand victory at Eden Park?
Its not exactly the stuff of Nostradamus is it?
A non-moron would understand that "I didn't say XYZ" is a simple construct for indicating repeated examples of "I did not say....", I'm sure you can work the rest out yourself.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
bazzaj

Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by bazzaj »

Sorry mate don't do riddles so I guess that makes me a moron.
Didn't see the Murray comments but I agree entirely.

It will be interesting to see if the Lions keep Murray next week as he and Webb are horses for courses selctions.

Picking Murray will indicate more of the same just hoping the pack can play better and dominate.
He will be looking to put the squeeze on.

Webb will suggest a change in approach with the Lions looking to add tempo to their play.

Gatland being Gatland I would suggest it will be the former.
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by rumncoke »

I did say the Lions could win but definitely not would win. To win they had to dominate both territory and possession - they did neither and thus made more mistakes and gave away more penalties than the All Blacks . {four ps for success Possession Position Pressure Points }

The real difference between the sides was the ALL Blacks receivers ran on to the ball and by doing so confused the lions defence because the Lions couldn't identify the receiver from the decoy runner and were marking both and thus allowing the ABs to break the gain line.

Saracens identify the receiver and double mark him to protect the gain line the Lions were denied that luxury .
Within this carapace of skepticism there lives an optimist
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by jean valjean »

The much vaunted lions rush defence was completed negated by the speed of the ABs ruck clearing. For all their great handling and pace it is the ferocious hammering into rucks that makes the difference. Itoje, best and tipuric are the 3 best forwards at getting over the ball and slowing it down. Only one is likely to make the 23 next week.

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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by bazzaj »

Big fan of Tipuric but then you lose a carrier in SOB so I would play him at 8 or 6 to accommodate Tipuric at 7.
Big loss on this tour was Billy V.
Genuinely the one player the kiwis would be worried about with his carrying and physicality.
With him POM and Tipuric you are looking at a back row that brings everything to the table.
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by Spiffsson »

There is much microanalysis of the first test in particular and of the tour overall. But to take a more general and philosophical look at things - I believed the Lions were doomed the moment Gatland was appointed as coach, and then he in turn appointed Howly at attack coach (joke) and Warburton as captain (another joke - not even the best 7 in Wales and certainly not worth his place on a Test team). With the stultifying and one dimensional tactic of Gatball; poor selection of the squad; the lack of midfield speed, intelligence and footballing ability, the outcome was predictable. A well picked and decently coached Lions squad should be blowing away the midweek opposition consisting mainly of Super Rugby reserves, in their buildup to the test series. This they were unable to do, and wins against the weakened Crusaders and Chiefs brought a false sense of their own worth.
This was dispelled when they met a full-strength, though rusty, New Zealand, who shook off the cobwebs to show them how the game should be played. Despite a few bright moments from the Lions (and one great try), they looked out of their depth. Overall, from that game there is not one Lion I would pick over his NZ counterpart. The anticipated forward domination did not happen. The plodding midfield of Farrell/Teo/Davies was as dull as predicted and unable to put the ball into the hands of the promising Lions back three in enough space to do anything at all.
It is difficult to see what the Lions can do to improve since they don't seem to have the required smarts in the coaching team or on the field. There are too many average players on the squad who are just not up to the NZ level.
Meantime, I believe that NZ will improve and get slicker as the series progresses and, as most of us predicted, complete the whitewash. It is not impossible that the Lions could win one or even two tests, since anything can happen on a rugby field (Ireland did beat NZ last year). But it is extremely unlikely (though I would love to be proved wrong).
Since I was a boy, I have been a massive Lions fan, but have found it difficult to maintain my old enthusiasm for the past couple of tours mostly because of the poor coaching/leadership and the dull approach to playing the game compared with that of earlier squads. I just cannot bear to watch the thick, droning, bumbling, limited Cement Head Gatland, groping for the next word, and talking the same old stupid and endless bolllocks, totally devoid of any rugby intelligence or perception, and instantly swith off the moment he appears.
That is all.
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by Snipe Watson »

Spiffsson wrote:There is much microanalysis of the first test in particular and of the tour overall. But to take a more general and philosophical look at things - I believed the Lions were doomed the moment Gatland was appointed as coach, and then he in turn appointed Howly at attack coach (joke) and Warburton as captain (another joke - not even the best 7 in Wales and certainly not worth his place on a Test team). With the stultifying and one dimensional tactic of Gatball; poor selection of the squad; the lack of midfield speed, intelligence and footballing ability, the outcome was predictable. A well picked and decently coached Lions squad should be blowing away the midweek opposition consisting mainly of Super Rugby reserves, in their buildup to the test series. This they were unable to do, and wins against the weakened Crusaders and Chiefs brought a false sense of their own worth.
This was dispelled when they met a full-strength, though rusty, New Zealand, who shook off the cobwebs to show them how the game should be played. Despite a few bright moments from the Lions (and one great try), they looked out of their depth. Overall, from that game there is not one Lion I would pick over his NZ counterpart. The anticipated forward domination did not happen. The plodding midfield of Farrell/Teo/Davies was as dull as predicted and unable to put the ball into the hands of the promising Lions back three in enough space to do anything at all.
It is difficult to see what the Lions can do to improve since they don't seem to have the required smarts in the coaching team or on the field. There are too many average players on the squad who are just not up to the NZ level.
Meantime, I believe that NZ will improve and get slicker as the series progresses and, as most of us predicted, complete the whitewash. It is not impossible that the Lions could win one or even two tests, since anything can happen on a rugby field (Ireland did beat NZ last year). But it is extremely unlikely (though I would love to be proved wrong).
Since I was a boy, I have been a massive Lions fan, but have found it difficult to maintain my old enthusiasm for the past couple of tours mostly because of the poor coaching/leadership and the dull approach to playing the game compared with that of earlier squads. I just cannot bear to watch the thick, droning, bumbling, limited Cement Head Gatland, groping for the next word, and talking the same old stupid and endless bolllocks, totally devoid of any rugby intelligence or perception, and instantly swith off the moment he appears.
That is all.
Spiffy I don't think it would have mattered who coached the Lions. There is not enough talent in the British Isles to have a better than slight hope of beating the All Blacks in their back yard at a stage of the season that suits them. Gatland is in many ways a shrewd coach, but I think he is like some others, too fond of his homeys. I don't think he's the gormless clown you betray. He gives nothing away and talks a mixture of ballix and platitudes as a means of avoiding answering questions.
The All Blacks are the best team in the world by a considerable margin and whatever chance the Lions had in the first test, they were always destined to have next to none in the second and third.
The performance of Kieran Read rips the backside out of the theory that you have to play yourself back in. Maybe that rule only applies to regular world class players. :roll:
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by BaggyTrousers »

Snipe Watson wrote:
Spiffsson wrote:There is much microanalysis of the first test in particular and of the tour overall. But to take a more general and philosophical look at things - I believed the Lions were doomed the moment Gatland was appointed as coach, and then he in turn appointed Howly at attack coach (joke) and Warburton as captain (another joke - not even the best 7 in Wales and certainly not worth his place on a Test team). With the stultifying and one dimensional tactic of Gatball; poor selection of the squad; the lack of midfield speed, intelligence and footballing ability, the outcome was predictable. A well picked and decently coached Lions squad should be blowing away the midweek opposition consisting mainly of Super Rugby reserves, in their buildup to the test series. This they were unable to do, and wins against the weakened Crusaders and Chiefs brought a false sense of their own worth.
This was dispelled when they met a full-strength, though rusty, New Zealand, who shook off the cobwebs to show them how the game should be played. Despite a few bright moments from the Lions (and one great try), they looked out of their depth. Overall, from that game there is not one Lion I would pick over his NZ counterpart. The anticipated forward domination did not happen. The plodding midfield of Farrell/Teo/Davies was as dull as predicted and unable to put the ball into the hands of the promising Lions back three in enough space to do anything at all.
It is difficult to see what the Lions can do to improve since they don't seem to have the required smarts in the coaching team or on the field. There are too many average players on the squad who are just not up to the NZ level.
Meantime, I believe that NZ will improve and get slicker as the series progresses and, as most of us predicted, complete the whitewash. It is not impossible that the Lions could win one or even two tests, since anything can happen on a rugby field (Ireland did beat NZ last year). But it is extremely unlikely (though I would love to be proved wrong).
Since I was a boy, I have been a massive Lions fan, but have found it difficult to maintain my old enthusiasm for the past couple of tours mostly because of the poor coaching/leadership and the dull approach to playing the game compared with that of earlier squads. I just cannot bear to watch the thick, droning, bumbling, limited Cement Head Gatland, groping for the next word, and talking the same old stupid and endless bolllocks, totally devoid of any rugby intelligence or perception, and instantly swith off the moment he appears.
That is all.
Spiffy I don't think it would have mattered who coached the Lions. There is not enough talent in the British Isles to have a better than slight hope of beating the All Blacks in their back yard at a stage of the season that suits them. Gatland is in many ways a shrewd coach, but I think he is like some others, too fond of his homeys. I don't think he's the gormless clown you betray. He gives nothing away and talks a mixture of ballix and platitudes as a means of avoiding answering questions.
The All Blacks are the best team in the world by a considerable margin and whatever chance the Lions had in the first test, they were always destined to have next to none in the second and third.
The performance of Kieran Read rips the backside out of the theory that you have to play yourself back in. Maybe that rule only applies to regular world class players. :roll:
I agree with bits of that Spiffers but not any "anticipated forward domination", not by a long way, that was mainly fevered optimism from Brits for sure but mainly clowns here. That daft notion presupposes that NZ is only the best team in the world by a huge distance because they have the best backline in Europe ........ sorry, the world. They have more or less the best players in the world in every position and if you care to name any player elsewhere who by consensus is better, it will be by the slightest margins.

I understand that many here would have a passing acquaintance with the expression "strength in depth", our old friend SID. NZ have it in ridiculous measure. Can you imagine any other team passing over a guy who has scored 46 test tries in not too many more games? Wouldn't happen but in steps Ioane and scores two. The truth is there are very few players in their team that they might swap out next week and weaken the team by any significant way. Even the peerless Read could be rested and you have Ardie Savea, Liam Squire or indeed even Brad Shields who is captaining Hurricanes on Tuesday.

Snipe, I am eternally grateful to you for not attempting to pick one aspect of either team's play and trying to form a half-baked theory around it as to why the game ended as it did because of it. :thumleft:

Not that it matters greatly but I agree with you about Warren Gatland. Not a fan, mainly because of his Schmidtlike selections of his wee favourites over better players, but he is no dummy. Of course, he has been a lucky coach, then again, most who win things are.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by Spiffsson »

I have to disagree with the pair of you about Gatland. I quite liked him at the start of his coaching career but he has become more and more conservative, is totally predictable, coaches a dull brand of rugby and shows no innovation. He is past his best and has nothing new to offer. He persists with the same old faces and tactics at the national and Lions level. His record as coach of Wales against Southern Hemisphere teams is abysmal. I have no admiration or respect for him at all. As for his stupid mind-games babblings ............. I really do think that Lions coaches should be limited to one tour only, no matter how they perform.
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by BaggyTrousers »

I think that Gatland is the perfect Lions coach. I love the fact that he floods them with English & Welsh players making the team very easy to dislike. He'll do me. :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
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Re: Lions Tour of NZ 2017

Post by bazzaj »

I must have over slept.
Reading all this we must have lost the series.
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