Ulster sides in UBL

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Russ
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Re: Ulster sides in UBL

Post by Russ »

Did you watch

Hinch v Malone
Hinch v Queens
Malone v Quins
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Columbo
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Re: Ulster sides in UBL

Post by Columbo »

Russ wrote:Did you watch

Hinch v Malone
Hinch v Queens
Malone v Quins
nope, just the UBL games, and I missed Malone vs Quins to watch the Zebre game (now that was a bad call..)
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Re: Ulster sides in UBL

Post by Dan Dare »

Columbo wrote:In the last couple of months I've caught a good few games - pretty evenly split between Hinch and Malone, and I've watched Queens once and Quins once. On the basis of what I've seen (as someone who only started watching AIL games last season) I'd say the following:

First, the standard of rugby is actually very good, much better than I was expecting, especially in 1A and 1B - there's a noticeable drop off in 2A (which is a bit concerning given the number of our academy boys playing there). But it's a world away from back when I was a kid, going to Ards and Bangor with my old man

In terms of Ulster academy/fringe players (or former academy players) I've seen, tbh probably the most consistently impressive ones have been Paul Pritchard, John Donnan and Kyle McCall at Hinch. Priotchrd is a cracking natural openside, good footballer too, and niggly with it (could do with fewer yellows mind you) and McCall is great in the open and over the ball, with such a low centre of gravity. Donnan has got a lot bigger, and looks like he'll be a smashing athletic second row in the mould of POC.

In terms of other back rowers (given Ulster's problems there this season) Joyce is an excellent grafting 6, but doesn't offer a lot of carrying, Butterworth likewise. Lorcan Dow is a good big carrier, probably needs to concentrate on the nuts and bolts a bit. I really like Josh Atkinson as a player, another good natural 7, potential drawback again might be size, he is solid, but doesn't look very tall. From what I've seen the pick of the bunch is Taggart - he was good with the Irish U20s last year, and in the one Quins match I saw, where they were terrible and battered at home by a big Buccs side, he was the only Quins forward who looked up to speed. He looks pretty big too, and his instincts are good.

In the backs O'Hagan had a good outing the day I watched them (against Seapoint) outside Young - he reminds me a bit of PJ tbh, he has nice touch, and a good break, achilles heel (in this match as in the U20s) was goal-kicking.. Josh Bingham at Malone has looked good when he's been on the pitch, but very small (I see he has been playing in the Ireland U20 warm-ups) - similar story for John Creighton, who is a smashing footballer, but who is just probably too slight, which I'm guessing is why he wasn't offered an academy slot a couple of years ago.

Which if any could potentially break through to the senior squad in the next season or two? I'd put good money on John Donnan and Frankie Taggart, and Dow a bit later. I think O'Hagan is a good prospect, particularly if he can nail his kicks. And I haven't seen enough of Stockdale, Owens, Arnold to say for sure, but they certainly looked the part in the U20 games I saw.

I'd be interested to hear thoughts from anyone who has seen more of these teams than me? I'm aware that they're just my impressions, from a pretty small sample of games!
Very good summary Columbo. I would agree with everything that you have stated there. I have been to nearly all Queens games and have watched the boys do well. I have seen a little bit of Malone and Quins as well.

Forwards is were we are lacking in general as a province going forward. I look at the likes of Taggart at Quins, Joyce at Malone, Dow at Queens and do not see them stepping up a level, Joyce just has not progressed, he is solid but thats it. Taggart has a huge frame and could be so much more, he has time and may improve but I just don't see a full professional in there, same with Butterworth (without the frame), good AIL but thats it. Dow just is not a ball carrier, ok tackler but does not make the yards when he has the ball, he should be standing out for Queens and he does not, he like Taggart has time on his side though. The forward that has been standing out is Josh Atkinson, he really gives his all and is very good at the breakdown, he just lacks size, but he makes the most of what he has.

John Creighton is a wonderful footballer, very quick with great hands, as you say it is his size that holds him back, he is probably too old for academy now and will be just a top club player, could only make it as a scrum half and Conor Youngs is the next big hope, he has been doing ok for Queens, but needs to get more aggressive and be more physical, I know he got a bang on the head in a Ravens game and I hope that does not affect him, he has a good pass though and could go on to bigger things if he does not get bossed around. Josh Bingham I see as an ok player, just ok at most things but lacks real size and strength, he is not in the academy but could be brought in next year I suppose.

A player never mentioned much due to his injury is David Busby, last year he was fantastic for Queens and a player (like Rory Scholes or Peter Nelson) who could definitely make a step up if he comes back as good as he was last year. Another player in the backs that I like is Sam Arnold, but have not seen enough of him but he looked good in the Ravens when I did see him.

The two young back three players Jack Owens and Stockdale are great talents but very young. I really like Jacob Stockdale, he is a big powerful unit for a winger and could see him in time being a 13 in time. He has the full package and is only 18. Sean O'Hagan is a just a great player to watch when he is playing with confidence. Anytime he has come on or started for Queens he has made a difference, his kicking from the tee has been average in fairness and I take your point, if he nails that he will be top drawer. He came on in a game in Dublin v Old Wesley that I mentioned in a previous post somewhere that was just outstanding. We were 28-0 down just after half time when he came on and it finished 31-21. We were expecting a 50-0 drubbing but He just changed the game. He has so much natural talent and has the physique to go with it, he is a maverick though who runs from all over the show, it will be interesting to see how Ulster coaches utilise him over the next few months. He is getting less adventurous with every game, but saw one of his trade mark breaks in the last Ravens game where I think he injured himself, not sure how long he is out for.

The one comment that you make that I agree with is the standard of rugby in 2A is not like 1B or 1A. Some of the boys would be better off in a higher division but it is a university team (a club I know, but they play as a university team as well), they play as friends and you can see them enjoying each others company, they are all young men. I do look at progression and ability so I would say that Stackdale and O'Hagan as my top stand outs with Owens and Busby also having top potential. I would renew my ticket just to watch these guys come through.

Forwards is were the problem lies. We need to get them coming through and I don't see them, getting in the Reidy's, Ross's and Butterworth's from other AIL teams down south shows the problem in its starkest form. I see it in the Ravens and I see it watching Queens and it is forwards that win games.
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Re: Ulster sides in UBL

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Dan - interesting to hear what you're saying about Dow, i.e. not carrying enough. Actually for the U20s he carried really well - almost to a fault, he hogged the ball sometimes when he could have given it, or tried to make extra yards and then rushed an offload which went to deck. But he certainly made some big busts - but you'd certainly want him to be doing that week in week out for Queens, and it's interesting to hear that he isn't necessarily doing that.

I enjoyed the Queens game that I watched, although it was frustrating, they were a good 20 points better than Seapoint but for most of the match struggled to get more than a score ahead.. Partly down to missed kicks, partly down to a bit of over-playing! But they certainly played some nice rugby, and O'Hagan is a great player to watch. For the clinching try near the end he got a late call, put his head up and landed the most immaculate crossfield kick for the winger to pick off and dot down. Really though, these boys need to be playing 1A or 1B IMO, so hopefully they can push on and get promotion - which might be tough.
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Re: Ulster sides in UBL

Post by Kofi Annan »

Maybe Queens is O'hagans level as he is poor when playing at the"A" team and Bingham gets the nod ahead of him.

"O'Hagan is a great player to watch" presumably when he is not kicking :roll:
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Re: Ulster sides in UBL

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Columbo wrote:Dan - interesting to hear what you're saying about Dow, i.e. not carrying enough. Actually for the U20s he carried really well - almost to a fault, he hogged the ball sometimes when he could have given it, or tried to make extra yards and then rushed an offload which went to deck. But he certainly made some big busts - but you'd certainly want him to be doing that week in week out for Queens, and it's interesting to hear that he isn't necessarily doing that.

I enjoyed the Queens game that I watched, although it was frustrating, they were a good 20 points better than Seapoint but for most of the match struggled to get more than a score ahead.. Partly down to missed kicks, partly down to a bit of over-playing! But they certainly played some nice rugby, and O'Hagan is a great player to watch. For the clinching try near the end he got a late call, put his head up and landed the most immaculate crossfield kick for the winger to pick off and dot down. Really though, these boys need to be playing 1A or 1B IMO, so hopefully they can push on and get promotion - which might be tough.
Can never make my mind up about Dow to be honest, hope that he pushes on, lots of people expecting big things from him. Always thought that he might get a run in the Ravens this year but he never got in one squad. Hopefully he steps up to the mark.

Went to the Malone v Corinthians game on Saturday, it was a pretty average game and for a 1B game the standard was not that much different from 2A. If Malone and Belfast Quins keep going the way they are they will be playing there next year. John Creighton was the best player in the game for Malone.
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Re: Ulster sides in UBL

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I don't get much chance to follow the foundations of rugby in the province anymore but keep reading that there are now more players playing now than ever before yet at the same time was told that more matches are being called off in club rugby that ever before…. is this true?

Seems a lot of clubs that could previously put out 6-7 teams are now struggling to get out 3-4 sides plus I know several clubs that have folded.

Anyone in the ground roots advise?
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Re: Ulster sides in UBL

Post by Kofi Annan »

CT, I don't know the figures but the CEO is saying that we have more rugby games being played know than ever before and that I believe us down to his initiatives. I don't know about other clubs, but mine is struggling to put three teams out, I think Hinch are maybe the most successful, but I could not be sure, I am sure other club men could comment
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Re: Ulster sides in UBL

Post by Deraless »

Dungannon couldn't get a 2nds out yesterday apparently.
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Re: Ulster sides in UBL

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Deraless.... Was checking back through the Branch site with this years games listed. I have to say I was amazed at the number of games that have been conceded during the season with even a few sides disappearing during the course of the year.

I can think back to my day and some clubs always had problems getting their bottom sides out but they seemed to 5-7ths etc now it seems to be 2-3rds and even seen a few 1st teams unable to fulfil their match commitments...

Regarding the numbers game kofi is this another spin to ensure a Coca Cola Business Plan KPI is achieved ? I heard of at least one club that no longer existed and hasn't for years is still listed as having several teams registered with the branch...
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solidarity
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Re: Ulster sides in UBL

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Just wondering - how many teams did Malone put out in their heyday? In my time they were the biggest club around. Which club puts most these days?
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Re: Ulster sides in UBL

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One of the major problems with the game to day is you need to be fit to play it at any competitive level .

In days gone by with a good out half kicking directly to touch 30 + guys had few problems going from line out to line out and the old wet leather ball was a sure source of knock ons and dropped passes .

People who want a social sport don't have the inclination to train 2 or 3 times a week for the level of fitness need for the game the changes of the Laws has created.
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Re: Ulster sides in UBL

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solidarity wrote:Just wondering - how many teams did Malone put out in their heyday? In my time they were the biggest club around. Which club puts most these days?
Just watched Dragons v Connacht. Rugby like it used to be - pitch like a swimming pool; one team in brown with a wee bit of red playing a team in brown with a wee bit of green. Happy memories.
Solidarity..... Nothing wrong with a bit of nostalgia. I may be wrong but it seems that most clubs now are light at least one of two sides from back then and that more than a couple have fallen by the wayside or gone the way of Quins or Shaws Bridge and almagamated. Strange then how the registered base is going up when so many clubs are struggling....
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Re: Ulster sides in UBL

Post by rumncoke »

Register goes up because most Clubs have the kids playing on a Saturday morning and if Friday nights at Kingspan are a reflection then this could account for a sizeable number .
There were no kids sections to clubs back in the days of course rugby .

Maybe a reversion to the old laws where you could kick for touch directly outside the 22 if all the players on the pitch were over 25 would see more players continue playing longer at club level.

While the numbers playing at club level were greater in the 60s it must be said once you got below junior Cup level at some clubs the standard and commitment wasn't that high the game was played for the social life and the result was seldom the top priority for most teams




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Re: Ulster sides in UBL

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Dungannon, have a BIG announcement coming re the future of the club, I hope they are not going to announce Ferris or Humph Jnr as head coach, that's not what they need. No disrespect to their current 1XV but none are Ulster Senior League Standard let alone UBL,

Will Malone make any coaching changes ?
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