Amateur Rugby In Ireland

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Russ
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Re: Amateur Rugby In Ireland

Post by Russ »

Kofi Annan wrote:
Russ wrote:Hinch are a horrible club

Russ, yes that may be so and on match days a lot of their fans are a tad horrible, but they do have a community club and the majority of members get involved.
But only up to 2XV
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UlsterNo9
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Re: Amateur Rugby In Ireland

Post by UlsterNo9 »

BuckRogers wrote:Sorry just who are these players that are being 'enforced' to join 1A/1B teams that aren't their home town clubs? Please some names.

I suspect if you knew your Crozier from your elbow you'd know that issuing a diktat as to where young players go is nowhere near as prevalent as it was when, for one example, Henry was sent to Ballymena when he would clearly have preferred playing at Malone. Advice is certainly given but I cannot think of one player 'enforced' to go anywhere. Indeed I know of several examples of players requesting to go to clubs they have more affinity with.
Peter Nelson Dungannon to Malone enforced this season immediately springs to mind of the top of my head, prodoct of RS Dungannon, father played at Dungannon for 20 years :lol: I think you've done well enough contradicting your argument from there on in.
As the branch discovered notably with Hairyqueens, when they loaded them with fringe ulster players, you can't create a club ethos that actually attracts players not being paid by the club/UR. You have too many people who don't give a brad pitt about the place and are only there because they aren't quite good enough or ready for Ulster. Ballymena suffered a similar fate for a while where they became heavily reliant on fringe Ulster players to subsidise a lack of local talent.
So they have stopped doing this? :banghead:
Out of interest aside from having a go at my post what exactly was your point?
Wasn't having a go :roll: diddums is someone on a forum where you debate rugby issues not allowed a differing opinion or raise counter argument? :scratch:

Truth is, Ulster Branch need 4 club 1st XVs playing top league AIL rugby to put their contracted players into that are not getting a regular game for Ulster.

Club rugby is dying on it's Brennan.
BRING OUR BOYS HOME #BOBH
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Amiga500
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Re: Amateur Rugby In Ireland

Post by Amiga500 »

Realistically, how can a man with a family play AIL and have to give up 1.5 days of every other weekend in travel/game time without suitable compensation[1]. In some cases, no money is worth the time with family.

[1]Then, the issue becomes one of the club being able to afford this compensation.


Longer term, the IRFU may be better served by focusing on leagues within the provinces rather than the AIL. While this will probably invoke outrage from the traditionalists, I think its something that needs to be explored.
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Russ
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Re: Amateur Rugby In Ireland

Post by Russ »

We all make sacrifices when we make life choices

A kid has a kid at 18. They make this choice and must live by it.

A young professional chooses to not have kids until their mid 30s.
A life choice

People all too often make life choices and expect others to foot the bill for it.

Feckers

Oh but what about the people who make mistakes? The choice was made to take the risk in yhe first place.

So, if you enjoy your rugby and a lads trip every other week then you must make the choice of when to give that up and have kids, or the choice to give something else up
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Setanta
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Re: Amateur Rugby In Ireland

Post by Setanta »

Self-satisfied? Smug? Egoistical?
From the rolling glens of Antrim through the hills of Donegal we will stand and shout for Ulster as we win both scrum and maul from the lovely lakes of Fermanagh tae the shores of ould Lough Gall we will scream and shout for Ulster as we beat them one and all!
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Russ
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Re: Amateur Rugby In Ireland

Post by Russ »

Setanta wrote:Self-satisfied? Smug? Egoistical?
All of the above.
I made a life choice to be that way
BuckRogers
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Re: Amateur Rugby In Ireland

Post by BuckRogers »

Peter Nelson is one example and was only 'forced' to leave Gannon because they have almost literally, as you put it, died on their crozier.

I was merely asking what your point was. You made a sweeping generalisation that Ulster only needed 4 teams and inferred that they forced, en mass, players to go to other clubs against their wills.
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Kofi Annan
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Re: Amateur Rugby In Ireland

Post by Kofi Annan »

Where was Stuart McCloskey and Paul Jackson moved to ??
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Re: Amateur Rugby In Ireland

Post by BuckRogers »

Can you blame either for moving away from the sinking ship Gannon?
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Re: Amateur Rugby In Ireland

Post by bazzaj »

Kofi Annan wrote:Where was Stuart McCloskey and Paul Jackson moved to ??
Pauls at Malone.
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Kofi Annan
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Re: Amateur Rugby In Ireland

Post by Kofi Annan »

BuckRogers wrote:Can you blame either for moving away from the sinking ship Gannon?
oh god no, Q1 beckons for them . anything yon boy Jack Henderson touches is a disaster. but i hear the Social life is good :roll:
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Re: Amateur Rugby In Ireland

Post by bazzaj »

BuckRogers wrote:
bazzaj wrote:I agree with all this perhaps years ago when club rugby was the bedrock of inter pro and international rugby.
International players were playing for Ireland one week and for the clubs the very next and club form was a basis for selection to the provencial set ups.

Now it is a very different climate.
Clubs are being bypassed as young players are being identified at schools level and fast tracked into provencial sides via academy set ups or if good enough directly in the squad system.

We now have a situation where Matt O`Connor at Leinster does not believe professionalism and amateurism should mix at any level.

I am not saying this is right by any stretch this but simply posing the questions:

What relevance does amateur club have and if was to disappear overnight would it have any impact on the professional game?
The same Matt O'Connor who fast tracked Clontarfs leading try scorer into the Leinster set up in the off season?

The club game is, actually, of huge importance to the pro game in Ireland and you don't have to dig down very deep to see the necessity that even Ulster, to use an isolated example, have benefitted from the AIL.

Gilroy (Bangor/Gannon), Trimble (Ballymena), Bowe (Queens then Quins) Cave (Quins) Olding (Quins) Marshall (Bmena) Jackson (Gannon) Henry (Mena/Malone) Henderson (Queens) and just about any of our other players have benefitted from cutting their teeth in the AIL.

Without these clubs where would these guys play rugby? Without junior clubs where would kids start to learn the game? At school at 11?

My other article attached provides an interesting insight as well IMO.
There was no kids club rugby when I was at school until clubs produced a youth programme at u18 level.
Schools will always be the breeding ground for the majority of talent.

Players are now bypassing the club directly into the provencial set ups as I said.
Club rugby is important to amateurs who want to play rugby but there is too much of a chasm opening up in terms of standard in order to bridge the gap for players with professional aspirations.

Would our most recent talent like Hendo or PJ been any different without playing those few times for their clubs?
While I dont think it would have done them much harm I don`t tend to agree that it had much bearing on their development playing with amateurs in an amateur set up.

Its sad but most of us love our club rugby as we were brought up on it but unfortunately that relevance is dwindling in this country in the same way as the Barbarians relevance is dwindling internationally.
My father played for the babas so it also saddens me but they are just another casualty of moving times and there is simply no denying that.
Or changing it I fear.
UR13IRFU
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Re: Amateur Rugby In Ireland

Post by UR13IRFU »

Stuart McCloskey playing for hinch
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UlsterNo9
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Re: Amateur Rugby In Ireland

Post by UlsterNo9 »

http://www.intouchrugby.com/magazine/do ... ge-millar/
The introduction of five leagues in 2015/16 will see Ulster with one club in the 1st Division with Ballymena hoping to join them. In the second division we have Malone and Belfast Harlequins struggling to sustain their position at this level. In the equivalent third division we will have Queens and possibly Banbridge. Look at UCD chasing Div 1A honours. Where are Queens – in the third tier. Much work to be done. With only the top ten teams qualifying for the third tier Banbridge, RaineyOB, City of Derry and Dungannon have much work to do if they are not to join Armagh in the fourth division. In the fifth division we will possibly have no Ulster teams with Ards struggling to survive in AIL and only the winners of the Round Robin going forward to join this new division. Is this a situation any Ulster rugby club wants to experience. Take Instonians who are top of Qualifying One. Are their players going to spend four years on the road going through the lower divisions to play club rugby in Division One of the AIL. Their club and players are experiencing a resurgence this season after being relegated from the AIL with increasing spectator attendances and revenue increases all down to playing in Qualifying rugby. The introduction of the All Ireland Junior Cup has been a success story for Junior Clubs in Ireland.
Ask Bangor, Clogher Valley and CIYMS who are looking forward to their quarter final ties. The problem I see in Ulster is that we don’t have enough quality players to sustain eleven AIL clubs in Ulster. Maybe it is still not too late for the administrators of the club game in Ireland to rethink their proposals for the AIL
league. Increasing financial budgets are crippling AIL clubs who would enjoy playing in provincial leagues that align supporters to support their local clubs. In the fixtures this weekend you can guarantee that the biggest crowds at Ulster club fixtures this weekend will be the Qualifying matches where spectators/supporters can identify with the teams competing against each other. Too many fixtures in the AIL hold no appeal for supporters.
BRING OUR BOYS HOME #BOBH
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