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Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Questions for the players, the management, the UAFC, the URSC or other supporters... Someone might answer you!! (and pigs might fly)

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Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Postby Jackie Brown » Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:38 am

Hardly like Ireland win big games. With and without Payne

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Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Postby BR » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:21 am

So is JS admitting that he has failed to develop a second player in our squad good enough to organise our defence against the weakest side in the competition and one ranked being Georgia?
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Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Postby Snipe Watson » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:43 pm

Cockatrice wrote:
Snipe Watson wrote:
Cockatrice wrote:
Snipe Watson wrote:
Cockatrice wrote:What we lack with Jared Payne not in the midfield has been particularly evident for us.

What we lack in midfield would not be cured by putting Jared into the team.
Our midfield problems are a symptom of a pack that is barely holding its own in the tight and is lightweight as well as way too slow off the mark in both attack and defence.


Snipe.. sorry not me that is what How's says of him.

:scratch: :scratch: That may make all kinds of sense in your head, but it doesn't on my screen.


thats what big fingers on a small phone get you… those are the words used by Joe Schmidt as are 'we're looking for him to control our defence again in the frontline' suggesting to my anyways that he is the defensive linch-pin. I have never seen it but if Joe says it then it must be true. I also watched a TV clip in which Connor Murray seemingly repeats the same PR ramble that Payne is the man that controls the defensive show on the pitch…

Oh right. I didn't listen to Joe's press conference.
To answer your original question then. I've seen little evidence of his leading of the defensive line at 13 for Ulster or Ireland. Doesn't mean he's not doing it though. He's a fine defender at 15 or 13.
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Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Postby ruckover » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:10 pm

I've always found Jared to be a rather passive defender. Don't get me wrong, he makes 99 out of 100 tackles, but he very rarely knocks an attacker backwards, he likes to hit them side on and allow them to get over the gainline at the expense of guaranteeing a tackle.
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Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Postby Rooster » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:22 pm

Jackie Brown wrote:Why doesn't he control the Ulster defence?

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Well he has played in 2 matches this season and both were at fullback so a bit too far back to control it :roll:
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Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Postby Jackie Brown » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:32 pm

Rooster wrote:
Jackie Brown wrote:Why doesn't he control the Ulster defence?

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Well he has played in 2 matches this season and both were at fullback so a bit too far back to control it :roll:

But he's never been a defensive lynch pin for us...

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Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Postby Rooster » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:36 pm

Jackie Brown wrote:
Rooster wrote:
Jackie Brown wrote:Why doesn't he control the Ulster defence?

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Well he has played in 2 matches this season and both were at fullback so a bit too far back to control it :roll:

But he's never been a defensive lynch pin for us...

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That must have been what we were missing :shock:
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Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Postby scrum5 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:12 pm

It wouldn't upset me greatly if Payne the centre only, left
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Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Postby Cockatrice » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:16 pm

I pose the question out of interest not out of some underhanded motive.

The PR sell on JP from within the Irish camp is in my opinion OTT but then again they must have been chomping at the bit to get him NIQ given his apparent (but less than obvious to me) ability to be the defensive linch-pin in the Irish defence.

Yes he can tackle but as with others I see a more passive style rather than anything aggressive but then it must be his ability to lead and communicate to others. Again something that wasn't immediately obvious to me from what I seen from him at 15 for Ulster but clearly it was to Joe & Les.

I think McCloskey did well against England given the circumstances and in truth I don't think he deserved to be dropped indeed I think it would have been beneficial to see him operate against a possible weaker Italian 12/13 channel. Does Joe really need JP back this weekend to galvanise the Irish defence should be collapse against an Italian onslaught or is he hoping that JP and Henshaw can rack up a try or two to feel the offensive quality..

I just don't get it but thankfully I am not the coach… I am sure Les can't wait to get him back at Ulster and get rid of all that tom kite we have filling in for now…
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Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Postby Rooster » Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:02 pm

Cockatrice wrote:I pose the question out of interest not out of some underhanded motive.

The PR sell on JP from within the Irish camp is in my opinion OTT but then again they must have been chomping at the bit to get him NIQ given his apparent (but less than obvious to me) ability to be the defensive linch-pin in the Irish defence.

Yes he can tackle but as with others I see a more passive style rather than anything aggressive but then it must be his ability to lead and communicate to others. Again something that wasn't immediately obvious to me from what I seen from him at 15 for Ulster but clearly it was to Joe & Les.

I think McCloskey did well against England given the circumstances and in truth I don't think he deserved to be dropped indeed I think it would have been beneficial to see him operate against a possible weaker Italian 12/13 channel. Does Joe really need JP back this weekend to galvanise the Irish defence should be collapse against an Italian onslaught or is he hoping that JP and Henshaw can rack up a try or two to feel the offensive quality..

I just don't get it but thankfully I am not the coach… I am sure Les can't wait to get him back at Ulster and get rid of all that tom kite we have filling in for now…

I'm just totally confused why he puts fullbacks in the centre and a winger at fullback plus has a player who can't even make the first team squad for his province on the bench , we would be laughing at an an English or French coach for doing the same thing.
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Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Postby Russ » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:35 am

Rooster wrote:
Cockatrice wrote:I pose the question out of interest not out of some underhanded motive.

The PR sell on JP from within the Irish camp is in my opinion OTT but then again they must have been chomping at the bit to get him NIQ given his apparent (but less than obvious to me) ability to be the defensive linch-pin in the Irish defence.

Yes he can tackle but as with others I see a more passive style rather than anything aggressive but then it must be his ability to lead and communicate to others. Again something that wasn't immediately obvious to me from what I seen from him at 15 for Ulster but clearly it was to Joe & Les.

I think McCloskey did well against England given the circumstances and in truth I don't think he deserved to be dropped indeed I think it would have been beneficial to see him operate against a possible weaker Italian 12/13 channel. Does Joe really need JP back this weekend to galvanise the Irish defence should be collapse against an Italian onslaught or is he hoping that JP and Henshaw can rack up a try or two to feel the offensive quality..

I just don't get it but thankfully I am not the coach… I am sure Les can't wait to get him back at Ulster and get rid of all that tom kite we have filling in for now…

I'm just totally confused why he puts fullbacks in the centre and a winger at fullback plus has a player who can't even make the first team squad for his province on the bench , we would be laughing at an an English or French coach for doing the same thing.

BOD says you need to get your best players on the pitch then worry about where they play ...

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Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Postby Cockatrice » Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:51 pm

Held the team together today..
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Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Postby BaggyTrousers » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:03 pm

Cockatrice wrote:Held the team together today..


Not a monumental achievement against 23 dustbins but hey, credit where it's due, he played well and his timing was magnificent for his try.
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Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Postby Jackie Brown » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:03 pm

Cockatrice wrote:Held the team together today..

Thank God he was at 13

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Re: Payne- Defensive Genius- Fact or Fiction?

Postby BaggyTrousers » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:05 pm

Did you see the way I just lapped him up and made no mention of the gift try he butchered >EW ....... after Cronin had butchered the first incarnation of that gift try.
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