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PRO14 to expand further

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Re: PRO14 to expand further

Postby mea97mb » Tue May 08, 2018 7:51 am

I wouldn't get too excited yet as it seems like its currie cup teams not SR ones joining at least initially. The Natal Sharks are the currie cup team the SR team is called <sponsor_name> Sharks. SA teams are contracted to SR until end of 2020 season so maybe after that they will move.

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Re: PRO14 to expand further

Postby Rooster » Tue May 08, 2018 10:14 am

mea97mb wrote:I wouldn't get too excited yet as it seems like its currie cup teams not SR ones joining at least initially. The Natal Sharks are the currie cup team the SR team is called <sponsor_name> Sharks. SA teams are contracted to SR until end of 2020 season so maybe after that they will move.

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Nothing to stop the currie cup teams joining ahead of the SR teams though and perhaps a good move for them to run a trial of logistics etc ?
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Re: PRO14 to expand further

Postby UlsterNo9 » Tue May 08, 2018 10:23 am

SANZAAR have publicly came out and said it is not true. Who to believe Welsh press or Australian press, recent events would tell me to believe no press.

All reports have stated it is Super rugby teams and not Currie Cup.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/rugby-union/sanzaar-deny-south-africans-will-bail-out-of-super-rugby/news-story/ef07964ca974250a58d9728f93fc4b71

SANZAAR deny South Africans will bail out of Super Rugby

SANZAAR, the body which controls southern hemisphere rugby, yesterday dismissed a Welsh report that South African teams were planning to bail out on Super Rugby to join the British Pro14 competition in 2019-20 as “simply wrong”.

But in the byzantine world of SANZAAR politics, what is wrong today might very well be right tomorrow.

According to a report on WalesOnline, the Sharks were keen to make the move to the Pro14, following in the footsteps of the Cheetahs and Southern Kings, the two South African sides culled along with the Western Force of Australia from Super Rugby in last year’s SANZAAR scale-down of the competition from 18 teams to 15.

The report also indicated that two other South African teams, the Stormers and the Lions, were sufficiently disenchanted with Super Rugby to be considering making the move to the northern hemisphere. Such a move has always had a certain appeal to the South Africans because Britain is in the same time zone.

At present any Super Rugby matches played in either Australia or New Zealand are scheduled for early morning, South African time. The added attraction is that officials see a systemic switch from southern hemisphere to northern as a means of keeping the Springboks and other leading players still inside the circle of South African rugby. More than even Australia or New Zealand, South Africa loses a massive amount of rugby talent to Europe each year because the rand is so much weaker than the pound or euro.

The fact that the Cheetahs, who were regarded as one of the weakest of the South African teams, managed to succeed in their debut season in Britain, reaching the quarter-finals, was further encouragement to the Lions, Sharks and Stormers.

SANZAAR wasted no time yesterday dismissing the report. Chief executive Andy Marinos insisted his organisation was going through a detailed strategic planning process through to 2030 in which all future formats — maintaining the status quo, expansion and contraction, across a range of competitions — were on the table.

“As part of this process, the member unions have fully committed to the strategy and their future participation,” Marinos said in the statement. “Any talk of a change to the stakeholder relationship and partners withdrawing, creation of new teams in new markets and trans-Tasman competitions is unsubstantiated speculation and simply wrong.”

Part of the blue sky thinking even included embracing the new professional competition in the United States, although the widespread criticism that followed the leaking of those details in the media suggest there is little possibility of the American option being explored, at least at this early stage.

But indications are it would only take some encouragement from Pro14 officials to push South Africa over the edge, especially as teams such as the Sharks have explored this option last year of their own accord, even though they were not one of the teams slated to be axed from Super Rugby.

It was suggested in the South African media their clubs might use the threat of bailing out on Super Rugby as a means of wringing Super Rugby concessions out of SANZAAR.

Australia have made it known that is precisely what they want to happen, for South Africa to withdraw to Europe, which would leave RA free to pursue its preferred Super Rugby model, a trans-Tasman competition.

Yet Australia should be also be warned to “be careful what you wish for”. At present, an Australian franchise plays a New Zealand team on average once a month; a trans-Tasman competition would see such matches taking place at least once a fortnight — and NZ has won the past 38 matches against Australian teams.

It is unclear when SANZAAR will decide on what iteration of Super Rugby it will take to broadcasters ahead of the 2020 deadline. It will hold a board meeting in London next week and another in September, at a venue to be confirmed.

While in London, deputy-chairman of Rugby Australia Brett Robinson will hold meetings with British and French clubs to discuss the challenges that Australia — and indeed all of its SANZAAR joint venture partners — face as a result of the constant plundering of their talent by northern hemisphere clubs.

“We’re trying to see if we can find a way to ease some of the pressure that’s hurting us and now it’s also starting to hurt New Zealand,” Robinson said.
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Re: PRO14 to expand further

Postby UlsterNo9 » Tue May 08, 2018 10:28 am

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/sport/356908/making-sense-of-the-super-rugby-rumour-mill

Sharks boss Gary Teichmann also had no time for the story, saying: "No discussions have been held in terms of looking at Pro14. I don't know where that has come from." Of course, his team would be pretty happy where they are right now, as they comfortably beat the Highlanders in front of a big crowd at Kings Park, Durban, on the weekend.


Except the reaction hasn't been exactly unanimous. Lions chief executive Kevin de Klerk at least acknowledged the elephant in the room, saying that there are 'millions of pounds on offer in Europe'.
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Re: PRO14 to expand further

Postby UlsterNo9 » Tue May 08, 2018 10:34 am

Snipe Watson wrote:
UlsterNo9 wrote:
Snipe Watson wrote:
Liz Fraser wrote:Cooke thirds would be an improvement on the southern kings

Kings pulled together a scratch squad of players at extremely short notice. They had meagre pickings to chose from and had lost most of their own decent players. Expect them to be more competitive next season and the season after.


Agree Snipe but what would concern me is that neither the Kings nor Cheetahs seem to have recruited or made any signing announcements. The only player movement I have heard is the two Cheetahs lads moving to Scarlets.

Hopefully a rest and a proper preseason which they were not afforded last year will help.

We'll see if they are serious about the Pro14.


This would concern me, by the sounds of things the Cheetahs will be a diluted version next season of the team they were last season which does not bode well.

https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/PRO14/cheetahs-must-start-anew-after-mass-exodus-20180508

Cheetahs must start anew after mass exodus

Bleomfontein - When the Cheetahs begin their next PRO14 campaign in the 2018/19 season, they will do so with a completely new group of players.

That is the harsh reality facing the franchise from Bloemfontein, who were knocked out of the 2017/18 edition of the PRO14 in their maiden season on Saturday when they were hammered by the Scarlets in the quarter-finals.

Super Rugby now seems like a distant memory for the Cheetahs, and things are about to change even more.

In total, there are 11 players who are definitely on their way out of Bloemfontein before next season while coach Rory Duncan is also moving on.

It means that, under the guidance of Franco Smith, the Cheetahs will have to start fresh.

Captain Francois Venter and Duncan are off to join the Worcester Warriors in England while otjers to leave are Torsten van Jaarsveld (Bayonne, France), Fred Zeilinga (Canon Eagles, Japan), Carl Wegner, Reniel Hugo, Clinton Swart (all Verblitz, Japan), Uzair Cassiem, Clayton Blommetjies (both Scarlets, Wales), Tom Botha (Ospreys, Wales) and Niel Marais (Jubilo, Japan).

A number of those players have been key to the Cheetahs cause over the course of this Super Rugby season and it makes for uncertain times ahead.

Johan Goosen, meanwhile, is off to Montpellier in France while there is still uncertainty over the future of flank Paul Schoeman.

"They say that you cry when you come to Bloemfontein and then you cry again when you leave it ... it is true," Venter was quoted as saying by Netwerk24.
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Re: PRO14 to expand further

Postby Russ » Tue May 08, 2018 10:35 am

Southern Kings need a 12 and 10 right?

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Re: PRO14 to expand further

Postby Tender » Tue May 08, 2018 11:38 am

Logie’s worst nightmare right there.
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Re: PRO14 to expand further

Postby Dave » Tue May 08, 2018 11:44 am

Russ wrote:Southern Kings need a 12 and 10 right?

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Re: PRO14 to expand further

Postby UlsterNo9 » Tue May 08, 2018 12:03 pm

Russ wrote:Southern Kings need a 12 and 10 right?

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Southern Kings need 10 to 12 players..... you're right.
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Re: PRO14 to expand further

Postby MightyRearranger » Tue May 08, 2018 1:43 pm

I think any talk of the SA Super Rugby teams joining the Pro 14 is probably very premature. I'd suspect that one of the goals of them having teams competing in European Competition is to try and get into a position where they're getting a share of things like the TV and prize money for European competition, with the hope of starting to stem the flow of players heading north. You'd be able to make four pretty decent teams out of the South Africans currently playing in Europe.

If things ever get to the point that the South African teams in the Pro 14 start to have more financial clout than the Super Rugby ones I can see a shift in focus, but not before that.
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Re: PRO14 to expand further

Postby solidarity » Tue May 08, 2018 1:53 pm

Pretty sure the Mighty Man has it right. They could well be looking at the Pro xx as a development platform as well as a cash cow. And the logistics of shorter journeys, crossing no (?) time zones are hard to argue with. The five year residency rule will also make it harder for quality players to come north so less chance of young guys being poached.
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Re: PRO14 to expand further

Postby Tender » Tue May 08, 2018 2:24 pm

Well we’ve all been saying that Big Game Hunting is no longer acceptable. The place has been hunted to the point of extinction.
Mullers and Pienaars are now as rare as Hen’s teeth and nobody wants a trophy room full of Diacks or ACLs.
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Re: PRO14 to expand further

Postby rumncoke » Tue May 08, 2018 3:12 pm

Some will still want to earn money and have money outside South Africa which is the big attraction . Its not the weather for sure .
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Re: PRO14 to expand further

Postby stickinout » Mon May 28, 2018 12:04 am

solidarity wrote:Pretty sure the Mighty Man has it right. They could well be looking at the Pro xx as a development platform as well as a cash cow. And the logistics of shorter journeys, crossing no (?) time zones are hard to argue with. The five year residency rule will also make it harder for quality players to come north so less chance of young guys being poached.


Or it'll mean young guys getting poached earlier? Maybe out of school?
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