justinr73 wrote:Apologies if I’ve lost anyone, but it’s understandable why someone who initially hailed Gibbes as the Messiah may be reluctant to admit that he’s nothing more than a naughty boy ......
We’ve gone backwards since he’s been at the club, particularly at the line out.
He’s been the constant and we were generally tom kite until April when events off the pitch galvanized the squad.
Not seen too many players shed any tears for him yet.
Our lineout has been dodgy since Muller retired.
I thought Gibbes was the man to put some steel in our pack, and be an innovative leader. He still could be all of those things, but just not for Ulster. As for his character, well the man is clearly without much of a moral compass.
justinr73 wrote:Apologies if I’ve lost anyone, but it’s understandable why someone who initially hailed Gibbes as the Messiah may be reluctant to admit that he’s nothing more than a naughty boy ......
We’ve gone backwards since he’s been at the club, particularly at the line out.
He’s been the constant and we were generally tom kite until April when events off the pitch galvanized the squad.
Not seen too many players shed any tears for him yet.
We've been going backwards for 5 years, Kiss had his paws on 4 of them.
I'm as disappointed at Gibbes' handling of the departure as I was excited by his signing. It is no reflection of his ability as a coach though, and he did perform once FOLK FOLKed leaving him with an AIL pack, no fly half with a start under his belt and a collander for defence.
Cockatrice wrote:What many are missing is that Gibbes was far from fully committed to the cause here from the off-set... just look at his conditions to put to UR for coming 1. He had to be in NZ at Xmas and 2. Depending on that visit to NZ he would have to revise his situation.
Do you know that for fact?
I do suspect he was not fully committed from very early on in his contract with Ulster, but I seriously doubt those two conditions being made for him to come in the first place.
My understanding was that none of the stuff about his mum's illness were known when he signed, but that was the reason he went home at Christmas and the reason he put in his notice to leave. If that wasn't known, why would he have put the conditions in?
The French stuff is all a bit of a confusing horlix on top, and I have no idea if or when he might go there, but does anyone believe that his mother is not as ill as as alleged, and it was a made up story to justify Jonno's leaving?
It wasn't a difficult decision really," he said. "I'd spoken to Les before coming about my situation and he was aware of that. Going back to New Zealand at Christmas time, which again I'd discussed with Les before I came, there was a reason around that and that visit confirmed or maybe re-affirmed, a few things for me around what the reality is.
"That helped clarify the priorities for me. From that point of view, that sort of stuff makes it a no-brainer. But professionally, I really enjoy who I work with, I really like going to work, and that's the mixed feeling really."
captain , looks to me condition , no need to apologise to CT.
Cockatrice wrote:What many are missing is that Gibbes was far from fully committed to the cause here from the off-set... just look at his conditions to put to UR for coming 1. He had to be in NZ at Xmas and 2. Depending on that visit to NZ he would have to revise his situation.
Do you know that for fact?
I do suspect he was not fully committed from very early on in his contract with Ulster, but I seriously doubt those two conditions being made for him to come in the first place.
My understanding was that none of the stuff about his mum's illness were known when he signed, but that was the reason he went home at Christmas and the reason he put in his notice to leave. If that wasn't known, why would he have put the conditions in?
The French stuff is all a bit of a confusing horlix on top, and I have no idea if or when he might go there, but does anyone believe that his mother is not as ill as as alleged, and it was a made up story to justify Jonno's leaving?
It wasn't a difficult decision really," he said. "I'd spoken to Les before coming about my situation and he was aware of that. Going back to New Zealand at Christmas time, which again I'd discussed with Les before I came, there was a reason around that and that visit confirmed or maybe re-affirmed, a few things for me around what the reality is.
"That helped clarify the priorities for me. From that point of view, that sort of stuff makes it a no-brainer. But professionally, I really enjoy who I work with, I really like going to work, and that's the mixed feeling really."
captain , looks to me condition , no need to apologise to CT.
Fair ennufski.
A lot still depends on what was known and when. I'm not talking about Jonno's situation here, but the situation back home, prognosis etc, and if and when that changed.
And you're right - there is no need to apologise to CT either - after all, all I did was ask a question. Something he's quite good at himself.
I'm not arguing -
I'm just explaining why I'm right
He still says he will take over at Waikato after the jet lag subsides. Though it may take 3 years in that specialist jet-lag unit in l'Hôpital La Rochelle first.
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Never wrestle with a pig. You end up covered in muck and the pig loves it.
Mac wrote:La Rochelle trip 'will be a mark on his reputation for years to come' - Neil Best
Leaders should lead as far as they can and then vanish. Their ashes should not choke the fire they have lit.
In front of what has been reported as one of their lowest attendances of the season Ulster comfortably saw off the Ospreys to secure Champions Cup Rugby next season.
For some time now, I’ve been a proponent of wholesale change at Ulster and the playoff against Ospreys held no upside for the Club’s current top brass. A win couldn’t make good their irreparable relationship with the fans – significantly reflected by the playoff attendance – and losing would only add to the noise for more departures. There is something seriously wrong when some fans feel forced to resort to not attending matches just to be heard.
Weak leadership has been one key factor in the Club’s more recent decline. Add to that poor management and player recruitment and you have a culture of failure that can only be cured by wholesale high level change. It pains me to say that I played in the last Ulster side that actually won anything – and that’s by now already over a decade ago.
And as difficult as the last number of seasons have been, it was the moment Ruan Pineaar was forced out of Ulster that has proved to be the turning point. Supporter optimism, tolerance and patience snapped as it became clear Ulster felt unable or were unwilling to steer their own ship. It was even rumoured that CEO Shane Logan threatened to resign over the Pienaar issue but was ultimately seduced by self-preservation. In retrospect he should have, potentially salvaging his reputation in the process. Because once he became a victim of IRFU interference it was only ever going to repeat itself. For Ruan, read Jackson and Olding, and for Jackson and Olding read Carbery or Keatly.
But for Ulster’s unhealthy relationship with the IRFU and poor provincial management – I hold responsible not just CEO Shane Logan, but operations director Bryn Cunningham. Bryn, a one-time teammate, has responsibility for “the professional game” at Ulster, and has to date managed to skilfully sidestep much of the criticism levelled at the CEO. Yet both have culpability for recent failings – in coaching and player recruitment and retention.
When Gibbes announced he was leaving Ulster he gave an interview to the Belfast Telegraph, at the beginning of March, disclosing that he had told Les Kiss before joining Ulster that he might not see out his contract. And by Christmas, within only a few months of arriving -for whatever reason – he was already looking his exit.
It was never probed as to what stage Logan or Cunningham were made aware, but you do have to question the logic of bringing in a coach – even with a Gibbes level reputation – who tells you upfront he might not see out his contract. And somewhere in the organisation someone must take responsibility equally for that as with Dan McFarland’s potential late arrival. Interestingly, Brendan Fanning – a man with a good ear for rumblings at the IRFU – in his independent.ie preview of the playoff he made explicit reference to Cunningham being held responsible in Dublin for the McFarland “bit-up”. If this is right it might rule out Bryn’s chances of seeing of succeeding Logan as CEO.
But as much as I see neither Cunningham nor Logan as part of the solution – they cannot be held responsible for Jono Gibbes daft behaviour in recent days. At one time many believed Gibbes would be a large part of the solution at Ulster, performances and results improved under his stewardship. And when he dropped the bombshell of needing to return home, the announcement was greeted with sympathy and regret. Then La Rochelle.
Whether Gibbes likes it or not his French jaunt will be a mark on his judgement and reputation for years to come. Not because it impacted on the team’s technical preparation – but because it provided a huge distraction only days before the biggest game of the season. And because it encouraged people to form the impression he hadn’t been completely candid when he first announced he was leaving.
He got annoyed when he was asked post-match if events of last week had left a sour taste – he denied it – but many will feel cheated by him and bitter. Not least his employers who received no advanced notice of his trip and had to rely on the media for their information.
If I was La Rochelle I would be closely scrutinising his statements about events over the last six months before formalising any contract.
Against that remarkable backdrop the Ulster players lifted themselves in adversity and won a season-defining match. And that gives hope. Maybe when the off-field change finally happens the future might be bright after all.
We shall draw from the heart of suffering itself the means of inspiration and survival.
Absolutely agree 100%.
Check out Le Equippe -Rugby this morning, looks like Gibbs is going home 'for family reasons' via La Rochelle.
He must have had the same Geography teacher back in N Zealand as John Afoa!
Mac wrote:La Rochelle trip 'will be a mark on his reputation for years to come' - Neil Best
Leaders should lead as far as they can and then vanish. Their ashes should not choke the fire they have lit.
In front of what has been reported as one of their lowest attendances of the season Ulster comfortably saw off the Ospreys to secure Champions Cup Rugby next season.
For some time now, I’ve been a proponent of wholesale change at Ulster and the playoff against Ospreys held no upside for the Club’s current top brass. A win couldn’t make good their irreparable relationship with the fans – significantly reflected by the playoff attendance – and losing would only add to the noise for more departures. There is something seriously wrong when some fans feel forced to resort to not attending matches just to be heard.
Weak leadership has been one key factor in the Club’s more recent decline. Add to that poor management and player recruitment and you have a culture of failure that can only be cured by wholesale high level change. It pains me to say that I played in the last Ulster side that actually won anything – and that’s by now already over a decade ago.
And as difficult as the last number of seasons have been, it was the moment Ruan Pineaar was forced out of Ulster that has proved to be the turning point. Supporter optimism, tolerance and patience snapped as it became clear Ulster felt unable or were unwilling to steer their own ship. It was even rumoured that CEO Shane Logan threatened to resign over the Pienaar issue but was ultimately seduced by self-preservation. In retrospect he should have, potentially salvaging his reputation in the process. Because once he became a victim of IRFU interference it was only ever going to repeat itself. For Ruan, read Jackson and Olding, and for Jackson and Olding read Carbery or Keatly.
But for Ulster’s unhealthy relationship with the IRFU and poor provincial management – I hold responsible not just CEO Shane Logan, but operations director Bryn Cunningham. Bryn, a one-time teammate, has responsibility for “the professional game” at Ulster, and has to date managed to skilfully sidestep much of the criticism levelled at the CEO. Yet both have culpability for recent failings – in coaching and player recruitment and retention.
When Gibbes announced he was leaving Ulster he gave an interview to the Belfast Telegraph, at the beginning of March, disclosing that he had told Les Kiss before joining Ulster that he might not see out his contract. And by Christmas, within only a few months of arriving -for whatever reason – he was already looking his exit.
It was never probed as to what stage Logan or Cunningham were made aware, but you do have to question the logic of bringing in a coach – even with a Gibbes level reputation – who tells you upfront he might not see out his contract. And somewhere in the organisation someone must take responsibility equally for that as with Dan McFarland’s potential late arrival. Interestingly, Brendan Fanning – a man with a good ear for rumblings at the IRFU – in his independent.ie preview of the playoff he made explicit reference to Cunningham being held responsible in Dublin for the McFarland “bit-up”. If this is right it might rule out Bryn’s chances of seeing of succeeding Logan as CEO.
But as much as I see neither Cunningham nor Logan as part of the solution – they cannot be held responsible for Jono Gibbes daft behaviour in recent days. At one time many believed Gibbes would be a large part of the solution at Ulster, performances and results improved under his stewardship. And when he dropped the bombshell of needing to return home, the announcement was greeted with sympathy and regret. Then La Rochelle.
Whether Gibbes likes it or not his French jaunt will be a mark on his judgement and reputation for years to come. Not because it impacted on the team’s technical preparation – but because it provided a huge distraction only days before the biggest game of the season. And because it encouraged people to form the impression he hadn’t been completely candid when he first announced he was leaving.
He got annoyed when he was asked post-match if events of last week had left a sour taste – he denied it – but many will feel cheated by him and bitter. Not least his employers who received no advanced notice of his trip and had to rely on the media for their information.
If I was La Rochelle I would be closely scrutinising his statements about events over the last six months before formalising any contract.
Against that remarkable backdrop the Ulster players lifted themselves in adversity and won a season-defining match. And that gives hope. Maybe when the off-field change finally happens the future might be bright after all.
We shall draw from the heart of suffering itself the means of inspiration and survival.
Absolutely agree 100%.
Check out Le Equippe -Rugby this morning, looks like Gibbs is going home 'for family reasons' via La Rochelle.
He must have had the same Geography teacher back in N Zealand as John Afoa!
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well said Neil
rock.. he may end up going to LAR via NZ for said family reasons that and to explain to Waikato why he can't take up their offer... he has let his home club down more than us as he was never committed to here since before coming..
Deraless wrote:He still says he will take over at Waikato after the jet lag subsides. Though it may take 3 years in that specialist jet-lag unit in l'Hôpital La Rochelle first.
