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Les Kiss, Ulster DOR or Dublin Plant?

Talk about the men in white, and everything Ulster!!

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Re: Les Kiss, Ulster DOR or Dublin Plant?

Postby Dave » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:14 pm

UlsterNo9 wrote:
Dave wrote:
UlsterNo9 wrote:We are playing more attractive rugby this year than we were last under Doak ball tactics.

If you think this is attractive rugby I'd hate to see your missus.


Why do you think I'm banging your missus Dave? >threaten

I stated more attractive rugby than under Doak, there's a difference.

BaggyTrousers wrote:Sadly no.9 you are as blind to the facts as I was a month ago. Kiss is a huge part of the problem, the dressing room does not respect him, they almost exclusively prefer Doak, and even Clarke is a toss up with Kiss for their regard.

I'm preaching here No.9 this is gospel, ask anyone you know who is ITK, Dave will almost certainly confirm the veracity of my spake.



Baggy I do not claim to be ITK but I'm at least prepared to give Les a season with his own team of coaches. To get rid of him now, well..... this is not soccer. Three years to turn around the mess he inherited should suffice, you have to question where we would be now had Les not arrived and Doak was given the main gig. Perspective please sir, you're a reasonable man.

Thanks no. 9 saves me the bother
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Re: Les Kiss, Ulster DOR or Dublin Plant?

Postby Tender » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:29 pm

Sorry, I was wrong. Les is the Guru we've all been waiting for and everyone of his team selections (and omissions) have the touch of a true Rugby God about them.
Our team's handling skills, speed of thought, tactics and execution have all improved ten fold since his arrival. The fact we're not sitting atop the Pro12 table, is a conundrum wrapped up in a mystery and only the deepest of thinkers have any chance of unraveling such a mystery.
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Re: Les Kiss, Ulster DOR or Dublin Plant?

Postby HammerTime » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:55 pm

Will never get my head around him choosing to attempt to get a losing bonus point away vs Sarries (the form team in Europe) over a 4 try bonus point vs Oyanaux (the worst team in Europe) last year. Absolutely criminal.
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Re: Les Kiss, Ulster DOR or Dublin Plant?

Postby justinr73 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:12 pm

Gilroy, Arnold, L. Marshall, McCloskey, Scholes, Humphreys, P. Marshall, McCall, R. Best, Lutton, Stevenson, van der Merwe, Diack, Henry, Wilson.

That was the team.

9 internationals is it?

If the Frenchies were as brad pitt as you say, couldn't Les expect they'd get the job done (or at least give the finishers a better first half than 0-23)?
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Re: Les Kiss, Ulster DOR or Dublin Plant?

Postby Bart S » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:17 pm

The jury is definitely out on Kiss and I can see why some people want rid of him as well. Personally i'd give him one more season as i am not sure a full overall of the coaching with no continuity is what we need right now.

My biggest concern remains with our playing strength and to some extent depth. Every coach needs some raw materials to work with and unless our young props Kane and McCall can stay injury free, we have a limited amount to actually work with in the front 5. Tredwell is one but otherwise the cupboard looks pretty bare. We'll struggle without Marcel and not sure what to make of Botha yet.

Our lack of depth at half back is...well...frightening, especially after Ruan's departure.
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Re: Les Kiss, Ulster DOR or Dublin Plant?

Postby Dave » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:11 am

Dear friends of Les,

Please see all the points the below and address each one with an in-depth response. Bare in mind that Les' appointment is an experiment. He has no head coaching experience or director of rugby experience. There is no shame in deciding that it isn't working. In my view Les should fcuk off, maybe just into the background and allow Jono to coach the team without restrictions.

1. The defence: this has been brutal all season. Now before some arseshat comments on tries conceded, look at the metres we have lost trying to choke with every tackle, the bloody drift defense nonsense with 17/16 stone centres drifting across the pitch? Fcuk off Les. He is a defence coach by trade and as DoR he has to step in but has failed or actually backs this system.

2. Humiliating defeats against Exeter away, Bordeaux twice, Edinburgh and that run were we lost 9/12.

3. Player regression: Hendo (a lucky lion) with that bloody pirouette, Olding, Marshall, Browne etc.

4. Continual selection of players playing very poor. Roger, Bowe, p etc. Non selection of Ludik, Cave, Stockdale etc.

That's all for now.

Incase anyone believes that everything is Boke and Farts fault, you may well be right. However, as DoR, Les MUST step in and rectify these issues. If that means he sends dumber and dumbest off to water the plants, so be it. Man up Les or fcuk off.
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Re: Les Kiss, Ulster DOR or Dublin Plant?

Postby BaggyTrousers » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:23 am

UlsterNo9 wrote:
Dave wrote:
UlsterNo9 wrote:We are playing more attractive rugby this year than we were last under Doak ball tactics.

If you think this is attractive rugby I'd hate to see your missus.


Why do you think I'm banging your missus Dave? >threaten

I stated more attractive rugby than under Doak, there's a difference.

BaggyTrousers wrote:Sadly no.9 you are as blind to the facts as I was a month ago. Kiss is a huge part of the problem, the dressing room does not respect him, they almost exclusively prefer Doak, and even Clarke is a toss up with Kiss for their regard.

I'm preaching here No.9 this is gospel, ask anyone you know who is ITK, Dave will almost certainly confirm the veracity of my spake.



Baggy I do not claim to be ITK but I'm at least prepared to give Les a season with his own team of coaches. To get rid of him now, well..... this is not soccer. Three years to turn around the mess he inherited should suffice, you have to question where we would be now had Les not arrived and Doak was given the main gig. Perspective please sir, you're a reasonable man.


You haven't digested what I've said, most of us have been utterly wrong, Kiss is the biggest problem we have. Exiled is right, he depowered the other coaches, the disaster is all his, he without doubt has been the architect of this dismal season.

I still think Doak and Clarke have been there too long but the disaster currently unfolding is down to Kiss.

I believe Snipe is barking up the wrong tree as well, whether or not Exiled is Allen Clarke himself is neither here nor there, broadly speaking what he has said about Kiss is dead on balls accurate, 100% , FFFS if it was football he'd be 110% accurate.

I understand too what he says about an Ulster voice but let's be clear, I'd take Erasmus tomorrow.

FOLK: Fück Off Les Kiss - coaching equivalent of a chocolate fire guard.

Exiled, if I insulted you previously I apologise, you were far closer to the truth than I was.
Last edited by BaggyTrousers on Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Les Kiss, Ulster DOR or Dublin Plant?

Postby BaggyTrousers » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:37 am

justinr73 wrote:Gilroy, Arnold, L. Marshall, McCloskey, Scholes, Humphreys, P. Marshall, McCall, R. Best, Lutton, Stevenson, van der Merwe, Diack, Henry, Wilson.

That was the team.

9 internationals is it?

If the Frenchies were as brad pitt as you say, couldn't Les expect they'd get the job done (or at least give the finishers a better first half than 0-23)?


Justin, sorry pal but you're missing the bleedin' obvious. The insanity of that selection centred on 9 &10, an away European match is never the time to decide to rest both of your starting halfbacks, either would have been ok, but if you are dumb enough to pick two utter flakes together you get what you deserve, an utter wan'kfest for the opposition. P has never ever in his shortarsed life been good enough, iHumph had been a good player but his form had utterly gone, never to return in any meaningful way.

Kiss created the perfect storm and it cost us a quarter final that we would have certainly lost but also several dozen tens of thousands of pounds, which every club outside France is desperate for. It was a ridiculous decision, the rest of the team was iffy but in the big scheme of his blunder, neither here nor there.
Last edited by BaggyTrousers on Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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FIRFU - FU'CK YOU ONE AND ALL, CAVING IN TO SPONSORS, SACKING THE INNOCENT FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE, SHAMEFUL BASTA'RDS. YOU'VE LOST MY SUPPORT & I HOPE MORE ULSTERMEN & WOMEN
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Re: Les Kiss, Ulster DOR or Dublin Plant?

Postby BaggyTrousers » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:49 am

Bart S wrote:The jury is definitely out on Kiss and I can see why some people want rid of him as well. Personally i'd give him one more season as i am not sure a full overall of the coaching with no continuity is what we need right now.

My biggest concern remains with our playing strength and to some extent depth. Every coach needs some raw materials to work with and unless our young props Kane and McCall can stay injury free, we have a limited amount to actually work with in the front 5. Tredwell is one but otherwise the cupboard looks pretty bare. We'll struggle without Marcel and not sure what to make of Botha yet.

Our lack of depth at half back is...well...frightening, especially after Ruan's departure.



Kiss has lost almost the entire squad, that is why his departure is demanded, he's crap. Many here talked about player attitude against Munster. Kiss is at the heart of that.

Now I too have been in the position if being managed by a jokeshop individual who is a talentless no mark. If that person alienates you sufficiently you basically sit on your hands until he's found out and gassed. You don't feel right about it, if you've anything about you it stings not to give of your best but that is the only way to lose the gimp, Les is a fuc'king prize gimp.

Wondering about our players is futile, Kiss has lost them and needs to go, but of course, this being Ulster he'll be there in August for the new season. Only the ability of Gibbes can save him, yet that will not mend the alienation of the players.

Oh for an Anscombe moment of "fly away home", but his D4 friends have his back.

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Re: Les Kiss, Ulster DOR or Dublin Plant?

Postby exile-fer-now » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:08 am

BaggyTrousers wrote:
UlsterNo9 wrote:
Dave wrote:
UlsterNo9 wrote:We are playing more attractive rugby this year than we were last under Doak ball tactics.

If you think this is attractive rugby I'd hate to see your missus.


Why do you think I'm banging your missus Dave? >threaten

I stated more attractive rugby than under Doak, there's a difference.

BaggyTrousers wrote:Sadly no.9 you are as blind to the facts as I was a month ago. Kiss is a huge part of the problem, the dressing room does not respect him, they almost exclusively prefer Doak, and even Clarke is a toss up with Kiss for their regard.

I'm preaching here No.9 this is gospel, ask anyone you know who is ITK, Dave will almost certainly confirm the veracity of my spake.



Baggy I do not claim to be ITK but I'm at least prepared to give Les a season with his own team of coaches. To get rid of him now, well..... this is not soccer. Three years to turn around the mess he inherited should suffice, you have to question where we would be now had Les not arrived and Doak was given the main gig. Perspective please sir, you're a reasonable man.


You haven't disgusted what I've said, most of us have been utterly wrong, Kiss is the biggest problem we have. Exiled is right, he depowered the other coaches, the disaster is all his, he without doubt has been the architect of this dismal season.

I still think Doak and Clarke have been there too long but the disaster currently unfolding is down to Kiss.

I believe Snipe is barking up the wrong tree as well, whether or not Exiled is Allen Clarke himself is neither here nor there, broadly speaking what he has said about Kiss is dead on balls accurate, 100% , FFFS if it was football he'd be 110% accurate.

I understand too what he says about an Ulster voice but let's be clear, I'd take Erasmus tomorrow.

FOLK: Fück Off Les Kiss - coaching equivalent of a chocolate fire guard.

Exiled, if I insulted you previously I apologise, you were far closer to the truth than I was.



I don't care where the DoR or Head Coach or whatever is from as long as they understand that Ulster is OUR club not theirs or IRFU's...... and as long as they are GOOD !

Like most people, I was excited to see Kiss come in because I thought he would bring some of the Schmidt-effect and mix that with what I thought was a strong squad of players and a decent coaching staff.

In fact our forwards have not been good enough for 2 years (particularly since Coetzee, Hendo and Henry have been injured or missing for most of that time).

The reality therefore is that our coaches have therefore been trying to compete with a pretty average pack which is not good enough to compete in Europe or to be top 2 in Pro12.

So faced with this - what happened ? Kiss decides the buck shouldn't stop with him. He can't blame the players (yet), he can't blame the CEO (his boss), so he thinks he'll blame the coaches.

He ostracises Doak from day 1 because he can take over the backs. He "plays" Allen for a while (because he needs him as forwards coach - cos he can't) - no wonder Allen and Doak had "issues".

He convinces the CEO that it's them or him and when he gets his way, then Allen is also thrown under the bus too.

This whole charade has been completely miss-managed and I'm worried about the next few years.

So far Kiss seems more worried about his own self-interest than Ulster. He has treated UR like his franchise and the jury is out big time.

Our players appear in disarray - I'm hoping that Gibbes will make a big difference but will he be a Muller/Ruan or an Afoa ? Peel - I just don't know why ? Surely Kiss is the actual Backs Coach and we needed a defence Coach ?

Baggy - I am a supporter. I am neither Spartacus nor Doak nor Allen nor Willie John !!! I took issue with the personal insults against Ulster players and coaches who have given blood, sweat and tears, whilst a blow-in has been supported when they've actually treated the club and individuals with disrespect.
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Re: Les Kiss, Ulster DOR or Dublin Plant?

Postby Rooster » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:55 am

Kiss was Ireland defence coach, and look at the fiasco that was the RWC as far as defence went.
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Re: Les Kiss, Ulster DOR or Dublin Plant?

Postby ColinM » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:28 am

The big white hope is Gibbes. He's coming as 'Head Coach' when one isn't acutally needed because Kiss is head of coaching as DoR. Our DoR isn't really required because there is a head coach and operations manager to take care of on and off field duties respectively.

If Gibbes comes in and gets the squad buying into his ways, he and Bryn could effectively make Kiss redundant and that would save enough wages to pay a defence coach and an actual rugby player.
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Re: Les Kiss, Ulster DOR or Dublin Plant?

Postby justinr73 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:41 am

BaggyTrousers wrote:
justinr73 wrote:Gilroy, Arnold, L. Marshall, McCloskey, Scholes, Humphreys, P. Marshall, McCall, R. Best, Lutton, Stevenson, van der Merwe, Diack, Henry, Wilson.

That was the team.

9 internationals is it?

If the Frenchies were as brad pitt as you say, couldn't Les expect they'd get the job done (or at least give the finishers a better first half than 0-23)?


Justin, sorry pal but you're missing the bleedin' obvious. The insanity of that selection centred on 9 &10, an away European match is never the time to decide to rest both of your starting halfbacks, either would have been ok, but if you are dumb enough to pick two utter flakes together you get what you deserve, an utter wan'kfest for the opposition. P has never ever in his shortarsed life been good enough, iHumph had been a good player but his form had utterly gone, never to return in any meaningful way.

Kiss created the perfect storm and it cost us a quarter final that we would have certainly lost but also several dozen tens of thousands of pounds, which every club outside France is desperate for. It was a ridiculous decision, the rest of the team was iffy but in the big scheme of his blunder, neither here nor there.


Don't worry Baggy, I like a debate - it's healthy.

One could argue that getting to within a point of qualification in a group containing the eventual champions was a good effort by a rookie coach.

Oyannax finished with 5 wins and 21 defeats in the Top 14 with a points difference of -418. It wasn't unreasonable (or indeed "criminal" as suggested above) to think we could get the job done without involving the big guns throughout.

Les picked a team he thought would win (which it did), presumably with a bonus point (which it didn't).

He won't be the first Ulster coach (or the coach of any team) to get it wrong (if indeed he did) against inferior opposition and he won't be the last.

Btw, the much maligned halfback pairing of P and iHumph at least managed to beat Cardiff at home last season.

Remind me how Ruan and Paddy got on the other week :lol:
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Re: Les Kiss, Ulster DOR or Dublin Plant?

Postby Cap'n Grumpy » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:15 pm

Dave wrote:Bare in mind that Les' appointment is an experiment.

Freudian slip? :shock:

Dave or Les? :duck:
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Re: Les Kiss, Ulster DOR or Dublin Plant?

Postby BaggyTrousers » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:03 pm

justinr73 wrote:
BaggyTrousers wrote:
justinr73 wrote:Gilroy, Arnold, L. Marshall, McCloskey, Scholes, Humphreys, P. Marshall, McCall, R. Best, Lutton, Stevenson, van der Merwe, Diack, Henry, Wilson.

That was the team.

9 internationals is it?

If the Frenchies were as brad pitt as you say, couldn't Les expect they'd get the job done (or at least give the finishers a better first half than 0-23)?


Justin, sorry pal but you're missing the bleedin' obvious. The insanity of that selection centred on 9 &10, an away European match is never the time to decide to rest both of your starting halfbacks, either would have been ok, but if you are dumb enough to pick two utter flakes together you get what you deserve, an utter wan'kfest for the opposition. P has never ever in his shortarsed life been good enough, iHumph had been a good player but his form had utterly gone, never to return in any meaningful way.

Kiss created the perfect storm and it cost us a quarter final that we would have certainly lost but also several dozen tens of thousands of pounds, which every club outside France is desperate for. It was a ridiculous decision, the rest of the team was iffy but in the big scheme of his blunder, neither here nor there.


Don't worry Baggy, I like a debate - it's healthy.

One could argue that getting to within a point of qualification in a group containing the eventual champions was a good effort by a rookie coach.

Oyannax finished with 5 wins and 21 defeats in the Top 14 with a points difference of -418. It wasn't unreasonable (or indeed "criminal" as suggested above) to think we could get the job done without involving the big guns throughout.

Les picked a team he thought would win (which it did), presumably with a bonus point (which it didn't).

He won't be the first Ulster coach (or the coach of any team) to get it wrong (if indeed he did) against inferior opposition and he won't be the last.

Btw, the much maligned halfback pairing of P and iHumph at least managed to beat Cardiff at home last season.

Remind me how Ruan and Paddy got on the other week :lol:



Like many before you Justin, you fail to understand that when I ascribe blame to a certain decision or set of circumstances that the only way to proceed is to accept my determination as fact, to demur is the way to lunacy, for I am all seeing and all knowing even if occasionally it takes a slight change of emphasis.

I once chatted to Declan Kidney down in Cork shortly before he produced Munster's second Heineken Cup win in 2008, and he believes as do I that you cannot take anything for granted in Europe, to mess with selection away is to invite disaster. Deccie may not have been the greatest coach but he was a shrewd ballix.

You can't argue with the combined might of Deccie's and my logic, it makes no sense at all.

As for last year and this years Cardiff home games, if you genuinely need serious clarification let me know, I'll put that to bed for you, double quick. >EW
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