Kiss out?

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CIMANFOREVER
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Re: Kiss out?

Post by CIMANFOREVER »

BaggyTrousers wrote:
ClearOutNeeded wrote:Is it time for Kiss to go or considering Ulster have been under performing for years should Logan go?

Munster showed more passion defending on Connacht's try line in the 84th minute on a wet night in Galway than Ulster have shown all season. They have been crap all season even when winning they have looked poor.

I have been a loyal season ticket holder but enough is enough. I get the impression that players, coaches and management are laughing at the fools who buy tickets and care about Ulster rugby.
A New Year, a New .........................or are you just a regular with this new catchy name.

Tell you what, why not just suggest we close up the club hand the keys back to the FIRFU and then we wouldn't need some feckin' bullroot coming up with this sort of shyte every 6 months.

This is not to say there aren't problems, some though not all are beyond UR to resolve, given they are the property of D4 & the FIRFU who are determined that Ulster shall never again rise from off their knees.

The things within our power to resolve ................. could someone have a stab at naming them and I won't be surprised if they are mainly for the FIRFU to call as well?

You sir may not be a total spanner, maybe you just genuinely don't know what is in the hands of UR & what is enforced from those ballixes in Dublin. I know absolutely I don't.

You won't mind if I use a variation of your name - PullThroughNeeded.

Right, I've the best part of two bottles of Rioja Gran Reserva in me to celebrate my departure from this vile wee statelet this year. Be good. >EW

Before I go, FFFS BR that's a horrible name to call wee Les. :shock:
The Academy, Clubs, schools system, youth/ non grammar/ development in non rugby schools are within UR's remit at least, and UR's mis/ non management of these feeder streams and resources such as McGlocks for years has left us servile and utterly dependent on the D4 begging bowl and their whims. It wouldnt make sense for the IRFU to sabotage one of their main provinces resource streams. Maybe they are guilty of not getting involved ENOUGH given UR's inability?

That at least we know. The fact that this systemic collapse hasn't improved, and the same faces remain by and large in place after years of failure means the buck has to stop with the CEO, who assumes corporate responsibility and culpability for the entity.

Its too early to make that judgement in Kiss YET, but I have my doubts there too, given some recent selection decisions both positionally and personnel wise, injuries and player management aside. The case regarding Piutau and Ludik at wing and centre a case in point. That is within his remit imo.

What we do know:

Tommy and RW are done and should be break glass only behind academy players- there is NO benefit in continuing with what we've got.

Smallp should not be near an Ulster jersey regardless of whether we think hes least worst option currently. Hes not.

Linking all of the above, on no occassion recently have the UR management team introduced new academy blood until their hand was forced: Stockdale, Little, Kane, now Simpson. All delivered. Even a fleeting appearance by Dow last year was encouraging. Mulholland and Rea have shown real promise before injury, so until I see the evidence for myself, I hold no confidence or store in the assertion we dont have better options than those listed above or at least more hungry than the rabble that didnt seem too bothered on Saturday.
Are we really serious in believing Shanahan is a worse option than Small? At the minute all we need is a 9 with a fast accurate pass and a grasp of the basics to be a vast improvement on Smallp.
Whilst we all accept that result was inevitable due to the way both teams were set up, Ulster should not be going into an interpro without the intent if at least firing a few shots and digs regardless of who was playing.
We sent a team including McKinney, Maxwell etc a number of years ago, got hammered 42-12 yet gave a better account of ourselves in terms of guts and fight with what WAS a real seconds and thirds side, rather than a team with a Lion, 88 cap Saffa, 17 cap AB, and a handful of other internationals both on the pitch and on the bench.
Ditto when we won in Turnipstan with a Heaney try and a pack including McComb and Stevenson throwing digs as you expect in an interpro when it means something to you personally.

The expected tanning of the pack didnt happen as Mexico were gifted the win without breaking sweat or our pack.

The loss wasnt the issue, just the gutless supine manner in which highly paid Pro's disgraced the jersey and took the pish out of those mugs who paid top euro to travel to Mexico on New Years eve for such a spineless performance. Poor decision making from vastly experienced players, management sticking with players past their best, sending signals of a white flag by management before a ball was kicked etc contributed to the collective ennui we saw on Saturday ( and have been seeing throughout the season) in tandem with ongoing personality issues behind the scenes I suspect.

So who does the buck stop with? as the IRFU cant be blamed for much of the above much as I'd like to.

Ironically, if we're saving players for Scarlets then thats back fired too. Herring, RAY, RW, to add to Herbst, Kane, Diack, AOC, McCall. It could get nasty with a big Scarlets pack out. Simpson and AW as tighthead options AW as Loose cover too?
So much for player management. I also fear for Olding and AOC long term :shock:
Last edited by CIMANFOREVER on Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Snipe Watson
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Re: Kiss out?

Post by Snipe Watson »

Cornerfleg wrote:Even Michelangelo couldnt paint for toffee with a childs paint box..... Cut off the head cos its easy, until we start from the schools system upwards we will he sacking coaches on a yearly basis.
Aye, what he said........ :lol:
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Dave
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Re: Kiss out?

Post by Dave »

Correct me if I'm wrong but, is Simpson a product of the academy or a club player given a development contract? According to his UR profile he is 26. Young for prop I know. I note John Donnan will be 24 in February. We really have very conservative selectors for the senior XV.
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ClearOutNeeded
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Re: Kiss out?

Post by ClearOutNeeded »

BaggyTrousers wrote:
ClearOutNeeded wrote:Is it time for Kiss to go or considering Ulster have been under performing for years should Logan go?

Munster showed more passion defending on Connacht's try line in the 84th minute on a wet night in Galway than Ulster have shown all season. They have been crap all season even when winning they have looked poor.

I have been a loyal season ticket holder but enough is enough. I get the impression that players, coaches and management are laughing at the fools who buy tickets and care about Ulster rugby.
A New Year, a New .........................or are you just a regular with this new catchy name.

Tell you what, why not just suggest we close up the club hand the keys back to the FIRFU and then we wouldn't need some feckin' bullroot coming up with this sort of shyte every 6 months.

This is not to say there aren't problems, some though not all are beyond UR to resolve, given they are the property of D4 & the FIRFU who are determined that Ulster shall never again rise from off their knees.

The things within our power to resolve ................. could someone have a stab at naming them and I won't be surprised if they are mainly for the FIRFU to call as well?

You sir may not be a total spanner, maybe you just genuinely don't know what is in the hands of UR & what is enforced from those ballixes in Dublin. I know absolutely I don't.

You won't mind if I use a variation of your name - PullThroughNeeded.

Right, I've the best part of two bottles of Rioja Gran Reserva in me to celebrate my departure from this vile wee statelet this year. Be good. >EW

Before I go, FFFS BR that's a horrible name to call wee Les. :shock:

Thanks for the welcome. I don't think getting rid of Les is the answer. Things were rotting at Ulster before he arrived. We can't blame D4 for our players not giving a tom kite. Against Leinster we didn't hit one ruck in anger or not one of our backline put in a tackle to knock them back behind the gain line. Anyway Boggy i hope you enjoyed your wine and have a good holiday.
therealspratt
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Re: Kiss out?

Post by therealspratt »

Dave wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but, is Simpson a product of the academy or a club player given a development contract? According to his UR profile he is 26. Young for prop I know. I note John Donnan will be 24 in February. We really have very conservative selectors for the senior XV.
I believe he may have been in the academy at some point but never got a pro contract from it.
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Kofi Annan
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Re: Kiss out?

Post by Kofi Annan »

Greetings fûckers


The buck stops with the man at the top, let's see some leadership from him, no doubt he will have all the players in today giving a speech on " the UlsterMan" what great warriors we are, including he was mates with Stirling and Mayne, how he has watched men die and how he can lead. Tell them he does not accept defeat , on thinking about that , is watching men die a great example of leadership, why not get you hands dirty and do something , oh wait.

KIss is the answer, just give him the tools,
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Wee Woman
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Re: Kiss out?

Post by Wee Woman »

CIMANFOREVER wrote: The Academy, Clubs, schools system, youth/ non grammar/ development in non rugby schools are within UR's remit at least, and UR's mis/ non management of these feeder streams and resources such as McGlocks for years has left us servile and utterly dependent on the D4 begging bowl and their whims. It wouldnt make sense for the IRFU to sabotage one of their main provinces resource streams. Maybe they are guilty of not getting involved ENOUGH given UR's inability?

That at least we know. The fact that this systemic collapse hasn't improved, and the same faces remain by and large in place after years of failure means the buck has to stop with the CEO, who assumes corporate responsibility and culpability for the entity.

Its too early to make that judgement in Kiss YET, but I have my doubts there too, given some recent selection decisions both positionally and personnel wise, injuries and player management aside. The case regarding Piutau and Ludik at wing and centre a case in point. That is within his remit imo.

What we do know:

Tommy and RW are done and should be break glass only behind academy players- there is NO benefit in continuing with what we've got.

Smallp should not be near an Ulster jersey regardless of whether we think hes least worst option currently. Hes not.

Linking all of the above, on no occassion recently have the UR management team introduced new academy blood until their hand was forced: Stockdale, Little, Kane, now Simpson. All delivered. Even a fleeting appearance by Dow last year was encouraging. Mulholland and Rea have shown real promise before injury, so until I see the evidence for myself, I hold no confidence or store in the assertion we dont have better options than those listed above or at least more hungry than the rabble that didnt seem too bothered on Saturday.
Are we really serious in believing Shanahan is a worse option than Small? At the minute all we need is a 9 with a fast accurate pass and a grasp of the basics to be a vast improvement on Smallp.
Whilst we all accept that result was inevitable due to the way both teams were set up, Ulster should not be going into an interpro without the intent if at least firing a few shots and digs regardless of who was playing.
We sent a team including McKinney, Maxwell etc a number of years ago, got hammered 42-12 yet gave a better account of ourselves in terms of guts and fight with what WAS a real seconds and thirds side, rather than a team with a Lion, 88 cap Saffa, 17 cap AB, and a handful of other internationals both on the pitch and on the bench.
Ditto when we won in Turnipstan with a Heaney try and a pack including McComb and Stevenson throwing digs as you expect in an interpro when it means something to you personally.

The expected tanning of the pack didnt happen as Mexico were gifted the win without breaking sweat or our pack.

The loss wasnt the issue, just the gutless supine manner in which highly paid Pro's disgraced the jersey and took the pish out of those mugs who paid top euro to travel to Mexico on New Years eve for such a spineless performance. Poor decision making from vastly experienced players, management sticking with players past their best, sending signals of a white flag by management before a ball was kicked etc contributed to the collective ennui we saw on Saturday ( and have been seeing throughout the season) in tandem with ongoing personality issues behind the scenes I suspect.

So who does the buck stop with? as the IRFU cant be blamed for much of the above much as I'd like to.

Ironically, if we're saving players for Scarlets then thats back fired too. Herring, RAY, RW, to add to Herbst, Kane, Diack, AOC, McCall. It could get nasty with a big Scarlets pack out. Simpson and AW as tighthead options AW as Loose cover too?
So much for player management. I also fear for Olding and AOC long term :shock:
Absolutely spot on CIMAN.
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Russ
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Re: Kiss out?

Post by Russ »

Dave wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but, is Simpson a product of the academy or a club player given a development contract? According to his UR profile he is 26. Young for prop I know. I note John Donnan will be 24 in February. We really have very conservative selectors for the senior XV.
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The Boo Radleys
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Re: Kiss out?

Post by The Boo Radleys »

Cockerill is available....
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Re: Kiss out?

Post by Rooster »

I still can't help thinking there is some young 9 somewhere in Ulster playing for a club side who would be a better option than p, ok he might not have the physicality due to keeping a day job as opposed to gym training daily but a bit of brain power and forward thinking and at 9 you can keep out of a lot of the physical stuff.
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keel
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Re: Kiss out?

Post by keel »

Russ wrote:
Dave wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but, is Simpson a product of the academy or a club player given a development contract? According to his UR profile he is 26. Young for prop I know. I note John Donnan will be 24 in February. We really have very conservative selectors for the senior XV.
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I thought you taught him all he knows?
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Russ
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Re: Kiss out?

Post by Russ »

keel wrote:
Russ wrote:
Dave wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but, is Simpson a product of the academy or a club player given a development contract? According to his UR profile he is 26. Young for prop I know. I note John Donnan will be 24 in February. We really have very conservative selectors for the senior XV.
Brian Leslie taught him all he knows

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I thought you taught him all he knows?
No. That would be silly
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Snipe Watson
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Re: Kiss out?

Post by Snipe Watson »

Kofi Annan wrote:Greetings fûckers


The buck stops with the man at the top, let's see some leadership from him, no doubt he will have all the players in today giving a speech on " the UlsterMan" what great warriors we are, including he was mates with Stirling and Mayne, how he has watched men die and how he can lead. Tell them he does not accept defeat , on thinking about that , is watching men die a great example of leadership, why not get you hands dirty and do something , oh wait.

KIss is the answer, just give him the tools,
:lol: :lol: :lol: Where have you been y'ould goat? Thought you were dead....almost missed you.

You're quite correct about Kiss by the way.
drumbo diehard
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Re: Kiss out?

Post by drumbo diehard »

Yes, Give Les Shanes job,D4 happy and bring in Cockerill, a proper rugby man!
jean valjean
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Re: Kiss out?

Post by jean valjean »

Happy for Kiss to be the main man but he must be able to call the shots, especially his assistants. If he is lumbered with the 2 Ronnies then he should be man enough to say its them or me. I don't want a lame duck head coach, or one happy not to be in control. The worry is what if he is happy with Doak and Clarke?
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