Contract situation

[BuckRogers]

Lot of usual shyte from people who should know better and others who don't.

Could we all agree to do me a favour and agree despite clear evidence to the contrary that Payne is a crap 13 and is only there because Schmidt loves him?

I would, for the record, generally agree that Payne at 15 is almost certainly best for Ulster. The fact however is either under choice or instruction he's been played almost at 13 exclusively for the past 18 or so months.

I can't be arsed getting too much further into the debate at this stage as it is a bit elementary given Payne's ongoing absence but safe to say I will be watching Henshaw's positional selection with great interest in the coming weeks.

[scrum5]

Anyone on here who wouldn't swap Payne for either Jack Conan or Rhys Ruddock....

[Russ]

Lot of usual shyte from people who should know better and others who don't.

Could we all agree to do me a favour and agree despite clear evidence to the contrary that Payne is a crap 13 and is only there because Schmidt loves him?

I would, for the record, generally agree that Payne at 15 is almost certainly best for Ulster. The fact however is either under choice or instruction he's been played almost at 13 exclusively for the past 18 or so months.

I can't be arsed getting too much further into the debate at this stage as it is a bit elementary given Payne's ongoing absence but safe to say I will be watching Henshaw's positional selection with great interest in the coming weeks.

Happily

1. He cannot defend in a head on scenario, only tackling side on. Usually we lose 5m as a minimum in this instance

2. His penchant for kicking away possession. ESPN stats have him as our highest kicking back outside of our 10 and 9. He's also our most charged down player

3. His inability to distribute. Don't know where he has lost this but it's gone. Not saying he cannot pass, just doesn't pass

4. He cannot jackal. Simply doesn't have the technique and when games are won at the breakdown his inability in a key position is now costing us games

5. His severe lack of pace. For an international 13 it's criminal how slow he is off the mark

6. Physical presence. Severely lacking for an international centre

I don't think Schmidt loves him. However I do think Schmidt has been told, this is Ireland's 13. Deal with it

Humphreys says Payne was signed as BoDs replacement by the IRFU
BoD stayed 2 years too long, but sure they'd found his replacement so he could stay.
They backed the wrong horse but they'd backed it, spent the money, so had to keep backing it.

Then we get to the real crux of it. The drivvle the PR boys (championed by BoD) that Payne is our best 13 (at 31...)

So really, the main issue is not Payne's inability to play 13 but that he was backed and the IRFU needs to save face

Conversely we have a great 13 in DC. A man who was tipped to be BoDs successor. Lo and behold, he gets nowhere.
Quelle surprise ...

Seems if you challenge BoD (owner of a PR firm) you don't play for Ireland, when clearly you're the best option. Remember Trimble? Tipped to replace BoD, suddenly BoD fueds with him and he needs to play out of his skin (read apologise to BoD also) in order to be considered

The whole system is fecked with some individuals seen as gods having too much influence

[Cockatrice]

At 13 I sum Payne up in one moment... His missed tackle at the RDS that cost us a trophey. There may be many other reasons for that defeat but that is the stand out moment..

[BuckRogers]

A fairly magnificently constructed post there Russ. Bravo.

[Snipe Watson]

I would love to know why all the geniuses who say Payne is crap at 13 are not coaching professional rugby teams.

Let's forget the Ireland coaches because they are obviously all crap and haven't a clue.

The Blues coaches clearly thought he was better than competent at 13 as did the NZ press who were touting him as a bolter for the All Blacks 2011 RWC squad at centre.

There really is some monumentally uninformed, reactionary bullshit posted about one of our players whose only real crime seems to be; not being Darren Cave.

ps I'm not saying he's an incredible 13, but I'm calling bullshit on those who say he is crap.

[Russ]

A fairly magnificently constructed post there Russ. Bravo.

I lost the run of myself a little

Half way through I channelled my inner rumn and just kept going with it. Had a few things to get off of my chest

[Russ]

I would love to know why all the geniuses who say Payne is crap at 13 are not coaching professional rugby teams.

Let's forget the Ireland coaches because they are obviously all crap and haven't a clue.

The Blues coaches clearly thought he was better than competent at 13 as did the NZ press who were touting him as a bolter for the All Blacks 2011 RWC squad at centre.

There really is some monumentally uninformed, reactionary bullshit posted about one of our players whose only real crime seems to be; not being Darren Cave.

ps I'm not saying he's an incredible 13, but I'm calling bullshit on those who say he is crap.

More money doing what I do now

[rumncoke]

Russ stats only tell half a story in so far as they fail to identify the options which exist

Get the ball in a flat back line with little space for the wings the only option 9 times out of 10 is to put the foot to the ball


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[Snipe Watson]

I would love to know why all the geniuses who say Payne is crap at 13 are not coaching professional rugby teams.

Let's forget the Ireland coaches because they are obviously all crap and haven't a clue.

The Blues coaches clearly thought he was better than competent at 13 as did the NZ press who were touting him as a bolter for the All Blacks 2011 RWC squad at centre.

There really is some monumentally uninformed, reactionary bullshit posted about one of our players whose only real crime seems to be; not being Darren Cave.

ps I'm not saying he's an incredible 13, but I'm calling bullshit on those who say he is crap.

More money doing what I do now

What do you do Russ or is it all covered by the terms of the Official Secrets Act?
You do love a bit of self aggrandisement in your posts.
You're not the new head of MI5 are you.....

[Russ]

I would love to know why all the geniuses who say Payne is crap at 13 are not coaching professional rugby teams.

Let's forget the Ireland coaches because they are obviously all crap and haven't a clue.

The Blues coaches clearly thought he was better than competent at 13 as did the NZ press who were touting him as a bolter for the All Blacks 2011 RWC squad at centre.

There really is some monumentally uninformed, reactionary bullshit posted about one of our players whose only real crime seems to be; not being Darren Cave.

ps I'm not saying he's an incredible 13, but I'm calling bullshit on those who say he is crap.

More money doing what I do now

What do you do Russ or is it all covered by the terms of the Official Secrets Act?
You do love a bit of self aggrandisement in your posts.
You're not the new head of MI5 are you.....

We all know what C stands for

[Snipe Watson]

I would love to know why all the geniuses who say Payne is crap at 13 are not coaching professional rugby teams.

Let's forget the Ireland coaches because they are obviously all crap and haven't a clue.

The Blues coaches clearly thought he was better than competent at 13 as did the NZ press who were touting him as a bolter for the All Blacks 2011 RWC squad at centre.

There really is some monumentally uninformed, reactionary bullshit posted about one of our players whose only real crime seems to be; not being Darren Cave.

ps I'm not saying he's an incredible 13, but I'm calling bullshit on those who say he is crap.

More money doing what I do now

What do you do Russ or is it all covered by the terms of the Official Secrets Act?
You do love a bit of self aggrandisement in your posts.
You're not the new head of MI5 are you.....

We all know what C stands for

[Joe Schmo]

I have no idea why anyone would waste their time defending Payne over Cave at 13. In fact this post is a waste of my time.

[rorybestsbigbaldnoggin]

Humphreys says Payne was signed as BoDs replacement by the IRFU
BoD stayed 2 years too long, but sure they'd found his replacement so he could stay.
They backed the wrong horse but they'd backed it, spent the money, so had to keep backing it.

Then we get to the real crux of it. The drivvle the PR boys (championed by BoD) that Payne is our best 13 (at 31...)

So really, the main issue is not Payne's inability to play 13 but that he was backed and the IRFU needs to save face

Conversely we have a great 13 in DC. A man who was tipped to be BoDs successor. Lo and behold, he gets nowhere.
Quelle surprise ...

3 issues with this:

1. O'Driscoll retired in the season directly before Payne qualified. BOD didn't "stay too long." It's not like Payne was kicking his heels waiting for BOD to walk off into the sunset.

2. BOD has publicly said he thought Henshaw was a natural replacement for him at 13, on several occasions. I'm sure he's also been supportive of Payne in the media, to differing extents - the two positions are not incompatible - but he has in the past, actively named Henshaw as his favoured replacement.

3. Cave was tipped to be BOD's successor by a preciously small handful of people outside of this forum's walls.


The reality of the situation is that Payne had experience as a 13 and 15 down under, and was brought with a medium- to long-term view of offering cover for BOD, as well as plugging a much-needed full-back gap at provincial level. At that stage, the UR/IRFU planners could not legislate for (amongst other things) the emergence of Henshaw, and the tragedy of Nevin Spence's death.

Payne wasn't "nailed on" 3 years out - that is a nonsense. If he was, why wasn't he slotted into 13 in any serious way before the 2014/15 season? (I'll remind you, Payne's 13 appearances pre our 2014 semi-final at Leinster were limited to home, non inter-pro games: ie, the easiest games available.) Rather, the IRFU saw someone who could be an option when the time came.

When the time came Schmidt, for his limited purposes, liked what he saw. We can argue about the merits of that til the cows come home, but it was a decision made by Schmidt after the end of the 2014 6 Nations; no earlier.


Most of your posts are short, poorly punctuated and intermittently funny, whereas this one was longer, slightly better punctuated and following what initially imitated a logical path. However in both fact (see points 1-3 above) and opinion (you have an awful obsession with the PR industry, don't you), it turned out to be no more than pish.

Must try harder.

[Russ]

Humphreys says Payne was signed as BoDs replacement by the IRFU
BoD stayed 2 years too long, but sure they'd found his replacement so he could stay.
They backed the wrong horse but they'd backed it, spent the money, so had to keep backing it.

Then we get to the real crux of it. The drivvle the PR boys (championed by BoD) that Payne is our best 13 (at 31...)

So really, the main issue is not Payne's inability to play 13 but that he was backed and the IRFU needs to save face

Conversely we have a great 13 in DC. A man who was tipped to be BoDs successor. Lo and behold, he gets nowhere.
Quelle surprise ...

3 issues with this:

1. O'Driscoll retired in the season directly before Payne qualified. BOD didn't "stay too long." It's not like Payne was kicking his heels waiting for BOD to walk off into the sunset.

2. BOD has publicly said he thought Henshaw was a natural replacement for him at 13, on several occasions. I'm sure he's also been supportive of Payne in the media, to differing extents - the two positions are not incompatible - but he has in the past, actively named Henshaw as his favoured replacement.

3. Cave was tipped to be BOD's successor by a preciously small handful of people outside of this forum's walls.


The reality of the situation is that Payne had experience as a 13 and 15 down under, and was brought with a medium- to long-term view of offering cover for BOD, as well as plugging a much-needed full-back gap at provincial level. At that stage, the UR/IRFU planners could not legislate for (amongst other things) the emergence of Henshaw, and the tragedy of Nevin Spence's death.

Payne wasn't "nailed on" 3 years out - that is a nonsense. If he was, why wasn't he slotted into 13 in any serious way before the 2014/15 season? (I'll remind you, Payne's 13 appearances pre our 2014 semi-final at Leinster were limited to home, non inter-pro games: ie, the easiest games available.) Rather, the IRFU saw someone who could be an option when the time came.

When the time came Schmidt, for his limited purposes, liked what he saw. We can argue about the merits of that til the cows come home, but it was a decision made by Schmidt after the end of the 2014 6 Nations; no earlier.


Most of your posts are short, poorly punctuated and intermittently funny, whereas this one was longer, slightly better punctuated and following what initially imitated a logical path. However in both fact (see points 1-3 above) and opinion (you have an awful obsession with the PR industry, don't you), it turned out to be no more than pish.

Must try harder.

1. ODriscoll should have gone when he was no longer the best 13. End of 2012

2. The man responsible for bringing him over said he was brought over as a 13. Obviously wasn't good enough to play 13 when first brought over

3. What have you got against Cave?

We're sadly stuck with a 15 playing 13 and a 13 playing 12 meaning our other top class centres might have to either ride the bench or go elsewhere

I'll ignore the rest of the guff as honestly, it was guff