Contract situation

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Dingle3
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Re: Contract situation

Post by Dingle3 »

Nightsoil wrote:If we keep Payne, will we have to play him at 13 ahead of Cave in big matches?
But he's a quality centre Payne, and he has only two or three seasons left in him and then cave could take over the 13 jersey in Payne's last season and then play on for another season or you could play them on their performances in the previous matches.
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BaggyTrousers
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Re: Contract situation

Post by BaggyTrousers »

Dingle3 wrote:
Nightsoil wrote:If we keep Payne, will we have to play him at 13 ahead of Cave in big matches?
But he's a quality centre Payne, and he has only two or three seasons left in him and then cave could take over the 13 jersey in Payne's last season and then play on for another season or you could play them on their performances in the previous matches.
Welcome D3, that's all I'm saying.......right? >EW
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rorybestsbigbaldnoggin
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Re: Contract situation

Post by rorybestsbigbaldnoggin »

Russ wrote:
rorybestsbigbaldnoggin wrote:
Russ wrote:
Humphreys says Payne was signed as BoDs replacement by the IRFU
BoD stayed 2 years too long, but sure they'd found his replacement so he could stay.
They backed the wrong horse but they'd backed it, spent the money, so had to keep backing it.

Then we get to the real crux of it. The drivvle the PR boys (championed by BoD) that Payne is our best 13 (at 31...)

So really, the main issue is not Payne's inability to play 13 but that he was backed and the IRFU needs to save face

Conversely we have a great 13 in DC. A man who was tipped to be BoDs successor. Lo and behold, he gets nowhere.
Quelle surprise ...

3 issues with this:

1. O'Driscoll retired in the season directly before Payne qualified. BOD didn't "stay too long." It's not like Payne was kicking his heels waiting for BOD to walk off into the sunset.

2. BOD has publicly said he thought Henshaw was a natural replacement for him at 13, on several occasions. I'm sure he's also been supportive of Payne in the media, to differing extents - the two positions are not incompatible - but he has in the past, actively named Henshaw as his favoured replacement.

3. Cave was tipped to be BOD's successor by a preciously small handful of people outside of this forum's walls.


The reality of the situation is that Payne had experience as a 13 and 15 down under, and was brought with a medium- to long-term view of offering cover for BOD, as well as plugging a much-needed full-back gap at provincial level. At that stage, the UR/IRFU planners could not legislate for (amongst other things) the emergence of Henshaw, and the tragedy of Nevin Spence's death.

Payne wasn't "nailed on" 3 years out - that is a nonsense. If he was, why wasn't he slotted into 13 in any serious way before the 2014/15 season? (I'll remind you, Payne's 13 appearances pre our 2014 semi-final at Leinster were limited to home, non inter-pro games: ie, the easiest games available.) Rather, the IRFU saw someone who could be an option when the time came.

When the time came Schmidt, for his limited purposes, liked what he saw. We can argue about the merits of that til the cows come home, but it was a decision made by Schmidt after the end of the 2014 6 Nations; no earlier.


Most of your posts are short, poorly punctuated and intermittently funny, whereas this one was longer, slightly better punctuated and following what initially imitated a logical path. However in both fact (see points 1-3 above) and opinion (you have an awful obsession with the PR industry, don't you), it turned out to be no more than pish.

Must try harder.
1. ODriscoll should have gone when he was no longer the best 13. End of 2012

2. The man responsible for bringing him over said he was brought over as a 13. Obviously wasn't good enough to play 13 when first brought over

3. What have you got against Cave?

We're sadly stuck with a 15 playing 13 and a 13 playing 12 meaning our other top class centres might have to either ride the bench or go elsewhere

I'll ignore the rest of the guff as honestly, it was guff
I've nothing against Cave. If I had been selector for the past 3 years, the centre partnership would have been Henshaw-Cave at 12 and 13. Aaaaand I agree that Payne is a 15, Cave is a 13 and we thus have 4+ centres competing for 12.

However, as you would have got if you read above:

- BOD favoured Henshaw as his successor
- Few people outside this forum - ie, few people in positions of relevant volume or influence - thought Cave would/should succeed BoD. As much as all of us, me included, thought this was the best path, it was always very highly unlikely.
- There is, in fact, no PR tail wagging the dog in this case. Payne was brought in 3 years before BOD retired, and was a success at full-back during the first 2 1/2 years (barring the initial injury). The debate over BOD's successor, or more precisely the politics of de facto repositioning Payne to suit the national side, has largely been contained to internet forums. There has been no outcry to match (say) the reaction to Heaslip's captaincy in 2013, or the ROG-Sexton debacle from 2010 on. The "outrage", bar some xenophobic sh!t from Hook and some gurning after Payne kicked the ball to van der Merwe against Canada, does not go far beyond these walls.
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therealspratt
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Re: Contract situation

Post by therealspratt »

The truth is, Payne's no Irishman, and he never will be.
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Snipe Watson
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Re: Contract situation

Post by Snipe Watson »

therealspratt wrote:The truth is, Payne's no Irishman, and he never will be.
What's that got to do with the price of carrots?
Or is it just a piece of random xenophobia?
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Re: Contract situation

Post by therealspratt »

Perhaps it is.
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Rooster
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Re: Contract situation

Post by Rooster »

Will be interesting to see if Payne gets a central contract this season as his one year ends
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Snipe Watson
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Re: Contract situation

Post by Snipe Watson »

Rooster wrote:Will be interesting to see if Payne gets a central contract this season as his one year ends
It will indeed Rooster. With the rise of the young centres in Ireland there could be a changing of the guard. it will be a statement of intent to start building a team to have a real go at RWC Japan 2019.
therealspratt
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Re: Contract situation

Post by therealspratt »

Snipe Watson wrote:
therealspratt wrote:The truth is, Payne's no Irishman, and he never will be.
What's that got to do with the price of carrots?
Or is it just a piece of random xenophobia?
Ah it wasn't on what I said, I don't like the project system but I was just stupidly lashing out at a player I've taken an irrational dislike to. He's a damn good player now, an excellent defender and with a good rugby brain, but still in all truth I would like him gone.
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Rooster
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Re: Contract situation

Post by Rooster »

Snipe Watson wrote:
Rooster wrote:Will be interesting to see if Payne gets a central contract this season as his one year ends
It will indeed Rooster. With the rise of the young centres in Ireland there could be a changing of the guard. it will be a statement of intent to start building a team to have a real go at RWC Japan 2019.
Wise up Snipe the IRFU will be thinking of winning 6N and getting up the rankings for Japan 2019, guard will change about 2 years too late once more.
“That made me feel very special and underlined to me that Ulster is more than a team, it is a community and a rugby family"
Rory Best
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Snipe Watson
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Re: Contract situation

Post by Snipe Watson »

Rooster wrote:
Snipe Watson wrote:
Rooster wrote:Will be interesting to see if Payne gets a central contract this season as his one year ends
It will indeed Rooster. With the rise of the young centres in Ireland there could be a changing of the guard. it will be a statement of intent to start building a team to have a real go at RWC Japan 2019.
Wise up Snipe the IRFU will be thinking of winning 6N and getting up the rankings for Japan 2019, guard will change about 2 years too late once more.
I know, I lost the run of myself and confused the IRFU with an organisation in possession of a planning horizon beyond Easter :duh: :duh: .

"Unprecedented three in a row" will be the justification.
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Russ
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Re: Contract situation

Post by Russ »

Snipe Watson wrote:
Rooster wrote:
Snipe Watson wrote:
Rooster wrote:Will be interesting to see if Payne gets a central contract this season as his one year ends
It will indeed Rooster. With the rise of the young centres in Ireland there could be a changing of the guard. it will be a statement of intent to start building a team to have a real go at RWC Japan 2019.
Wise up Snipe the IRFU will be thinking of winning 6N and getting up the rankings for Japan 2019, guard will change about 2 years too late once more.
I know, I lost the run of myself and confused the IRFU with an organisation in possession of a planning horizon beyond Easter :duh: :duh: .

"Unprecedented three in a row" will be the justification.
Coupled with the "missing Paulie" "why is paulie not selected" "let's give paulie one last run out"
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Re: Contract situation

Post by Cockatrice »

Rooster wrote:Will be interesting to see if Payne gets a central contract this season as his one year ends
At least we can move him back to 15 then without the interference from D4 although I suspect the IRFU will not have the balls to move too quickly in preparation for the next world cup… it s all about the 6N's for them so same old for a while.
Currently studying Stage 5 (level3) at IRFU
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Jackie Brown
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Re: Contract situation

Post by Jackie Brown »

Snipe Watson wrote:
therealspratt wrote:The truth is, Payne's no Irishman, and he never will be.
What's that got to do with the price of carrots?
Or is it just a piece of random xenophobia?
International rugby by it's very nature is xenophobic.
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scrum5
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Re: Contract situation

Post by scrum5 »

Still waiting for someone to say they wouldn't swap him for Conan or Ruddock, well what about Dan Leavy or Josh Van der Flier then.....
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