Contract situation

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Contract situation

Postby ruckover » Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:36 pm

Quick scroll through our contract situation, and here's who I believe are out of contract at the end of the season:
- Ricky Lutton
- Ruaidhri Murphy
- Bronson Ross
- Rory Best
- Lewis Stevenson
- Willie Faloon
- Ian Humphreys
- Sam Windsor
- Luke Marshall
- Jared Payne

Some who I was unable to find out contract information for:
- Paul Jackson
- Jonny Murphy
- Pete Browne
- Conor Joyce
- Sean Reidy
- Clive Ross
- Frankie Taggart
- Paul Marshall
- Paul Rowley
- Paddy Jackson
- Rory Scholes
- Sammy Arnold
- Stuart Olding
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Re: Contract situation

Postby Snipe Watson » Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:41 pm

[quote="ruckover"]Quick scroll through our contract situation, and here's who I believe are out of contract at the end of the season:
- Ricky Lutton - Keep
- Ruaidhri Murphy - Adiós
- Bronson Ross - Keep
- Rory Best- Keep
- Lewis Stevenson - Keep
- Willie Faloon - Keep
- Ian Humphreys - Adiós
- Sam Windsor - Adiós
- Luke Marshall- Keep
- Jared Payne - Keep
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Re: Contract situation

Postby Russ » Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:55 pm

Is PJ not centrally contracted?
Jihad is centrally contracted to the end of this year
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Re: Contract situation

Postby BaggyTrousers » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:39 pm

Snipe Watson wrote:
ruckover wrote:Quick scroll through our contract situation, and here's who I believe are out of contract at the end of the season:
- Ricky Lutton - Keep
- Ruaidhri Murphy - Adiós
- Bronson Ross - Keep
- Rory Best- Keep
- Lewis Stevenson - Keep
- Willie Faloon - Keep
- Ian Humphreys - Adiós
- Sam Windsor - Adiós
- Luke Marshall- Keep
- Jared Payne - Keep


Flawless assessment Snipe. :thumleft:
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Re: Contract situation

Postby Nightsoil » Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:34 pm

If we keep Payne, will we have to play him at 13 ahead of Cave in big matches?
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Re: Contract situation

Postby BaggyTrousers » Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:58 pm

Nightsoil wrote:If we keep Payne, will we have to play him at 13 ahead of Cave in big matches?


Probably, though there is the possibility of course that Cave & Payne become the first choice pair at 12 & 13. :duck:
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Re: Contract situation

Postby Nightsoil » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:33 pm

BaggyTrousers wrote:
Nightsoil wrote:If we keep Payne, will we have to play him at 13 ahead of Cave in big matches?


Probably, though there is the possibility of course that Cave & Payne become the first choice pair at 12 & 13. :duck:


I'd say that's a probability if Payne stays, aye.

Maybe* I'm being a gurning fool, but in this turn of events I'd rather see us let Payne go and play our best 13 at 13 and one of our many 12s at 12.

* possibly probably.
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Re: Contract situation

Postby Snipe Watson » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:07 am

Once a Knight wrote:
BaggyTrousers wrote:
Snipe Watson wrote:
ruckover wrote:Quick scroll through our contract situation, and here's who I believe are out of contract at the end of the season:
- Ricky Lutton - Keep
- Ruaidhri Murphy - Adiós
- Bronson Ross - Keep
- Rory Best- Keep
- Lewis Stevenson - Keep
- Willie Faloon - Keep
- Ian Humphreys - Adiós
- Sam Windsor - Adiós
- Luke Marshall- Keep
- Jared Payne - Keep


Flawless assessment Snipe. :thumleft:


You're just sucking up now that Nucifora is actually Fibber Joe's boss. :lol: :lol: :lol:

He was just appreciating my subtle use of Spanish. He's apparently keen on Spain.........
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Re: Contract situation

Postby Neil F » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:31 pm

Nightsoil wrote:I'd say that's a probability if Payne stays, aye.

Maybe* I'm being a gurning fool, but in this turn of events I'd rather see us let Payne go and play our best 13 at 13 and one of our many 12s at 12.

* possibly probably.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it; Payne is Ulster's best 13.

His capacity at 13 is ignored because Ulster would have been a stronger outfit with him at 15 and Cave at 13 over the last season or so. I understand the frustration; for Ulster, it seems like an inefficient use of playing resources to have Payne at 13. There are valid arguments about where Payne should play. That he's an inferior 13 to Cave isn't one of them. That he might be a better 15 than 13 is a matter of opinion to most; that the gap between Cave and Payne at 13 is much smaller than the gap between Payne and Ludik at 15 isn't even debatable. None of them reflect, however, what Payne actually offers at 13.

Anyone advocating letting Payne leave is talking in absurdities unless it involves a first-choice IQ backrower coming the other way. In no other situation does the squad or the first XV get stronger for Payne leaving, given his likely station at 13. In reality, the problem with Payne is that UR failed to immediately replace him at 15 with someone of similar quality.
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Re: Contract situation

Postby therealspratt » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:46 pm

Bah, could take or leave Payne.
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Re: Contract situation

Postby thecrouch » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:52 pm

Snipe Watson wrote:- Ricky Lutton - Keep
- Ruaidhri Murphy - Adiós
- Bronson Ross - Keep
- Rory Best- Keep
- Lewis Stevenson - Keep
- Willie Faloon - Keep
- Ian Humphreys - Adiós
- Sam Windsor - Adiós
- Luke Marshall- Keep
- Jared Payne - Keep


Ross? Keep?! Not a chance. Get out.

Look, I am not a fatty so my scrum knowledge is limited, but I am pretty sure that when it comes down to it neither Lutton or Ross are up to standard.

I'd love to get rid of iHumph too and get someone more competent in.

Big Stevenson isn't too stellar either.
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Re: Contract situation

Postby OneMore » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:03 pm

Neil F wrote:
Nightsoil wrote:I'd say that's a probability if Payne stays, aye.

Maybe* I'm being a gurning fool, but in this turn of events I'd rather see us let Payne go and play our best 13 at 13 and one of our many 12s at 12.

* possibly probably.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it; Payne is Ulster's best 13.

His capacity at 13 is ignored because Ulster would have been a stronger outfit with him at 15 and Cave at 13 over the last season or so. I understand the frustration; for Ulster, it seems like an inefficient use of playing resources to have Payne at 13. There are valid arguments about where Payne should play. That he's an inferior 13 to Cave isn't one of them. That he might be a better 15 than 13 is a matter of opinion to most; that the gap between Cave and Payne at 13 is much smaller than the gap between Payne and Ludik at 15 isn't even debatable. None of them reflect, however, what Payne actually offers at 13.

Anyone advocating letting Payne leave is talking in absurdities unless it involves a first-choice IQ backrower coming the other way. In no other situation does the squad or the first XV get stronger for Payne leaving, given his likely station at 13. In reality, the problem with Payne is that UR failed to immediately replace him at 15 with someone of similar quality.

Hmm. I think in time Payne will be a better 13 than Cave - I think he's probably got more all round athleticism perhaps.

But I certainly wouldn't agree that Payne has performed better at 13 in the last year, say, than Cave had in the year previous. Not at all. I think Payne moving into 13 actually took us backwards, not just as an overall backline (though this is certainly true), but also specifically at 13. I think you might agree with that Neil, and I agree that it's possible that we took a step back to go forward. And when we've Piutau at 15, an in-the-groove Payne at 13, any 2 of our 3 best wingers, any of Cave/Stu/Stu/Luke at 12, Jackie and Ruan - that'll be a serious backline.

But for me, Payne to 13 is to accommodate the future arrival of Piutau, or to accommodate Ireland (though why Kearney is undropable is beyond me at this stage). It's not because Payne, at that time, was a better 13 than Cave.

In my opinion of course... :fleg:
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Re: Contract situation

Postby Neil F » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:12 pm

I would say that the one thing that Cave has benefitted from when playing 13 at Ulster (specifically over the season before last) that Payne hasn't was that he had Payne at 15. Of the things that directly relate to which number Payne wears, that has probably had more of an effect on the backline than anything else. In part, that is precisely what I meant by people judging Payne's contribution at 13 on the basis of Ulster being unwilling or unable to sign a 15 that offered as much as Payne. This is no slight to Ludik; he's solid as a rock and seldom makes poor decisions but he doesn't ooze the class that Payne did. Ulster's backline last season struggled just as much with Cave at 13 as Payne, in my opinion, except on the rare occasion when Payne was 15 and Cave 13 (the last twenty minutes or so at Welford Road, for example, when it looked like Ulster might pull-off that comeback...)

More generally, I think that also probably has something to do with the change of coaching and the loss of some serious grunt up front. I don't think the Ulster XV as a whole are comparable across the two seasons, either. The backline last season was under a hell of a lot more pressure that it was the previous season because the forwards were weaker, or certainly, performed much poorer. Again, I think that makes it impossible to judge like-for-like between Cave and Payne across a couple of seasons.

Although I think the debate probably immaterial, I still feel Ulster would be stronger with Cave at 13 and Payne at 15 but if we must judge Payne at 13 at all in such relative terms, the inefficient use of Ulster's playing resources should be the argument. The "Ulster's best 13 / Ireland's best 13" thing just doesn't wash.
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Re: Contract situation

Postby Russ » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:18 pm

OneMore wrote:
Neil F wrote:
Nightsoil wrote:I'd say that's a probability if Payne stays, aye.

Maybe* I'm being a gurning fool, but in this turn of events I'd rather see us let Payne go and play our best 13 at 13 and one of our many 12s at 12.

* possibly probably.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it; Payne is Ulster's best 13.

His capacity at 13 is ignored because Ulster would have been a stronger outfit with him at 15 and Cave at 13 over the last season or so. I understand the frustration; for Ulster, it seems like an inefficient use of playing resources to have Payne at 13. There are valid arguments about where Payne should play. That he's an inferior 13 to Cave isn't one of them. That he might be a better 15 than 13 is a matter of opinion to most; that the gap between Cave and Payne at 13 is much smaller than the gap between Payne and Ludik at 15 isn't even debatable. None of them reflect, however, what Payne actually offers at 13.

Anyone advocating letting Payne leave is talking in absurdities unless it involves a first-choice IQ backrower coming the other way. In no other situation does the squad or the first XV get stronger for Payne leaving, given his likely station at 13. In reality, the problem with Payne is that UR failed to immediately replace him at 15 with someone of similar quality.

Hmm. I think in time Payne will be a better 13 than Cave - I think he's probably got more all round athleticism perhaps.

But I certainly wouldn't agree that Payne has performed better at 13 in the last year, say, than Cave had in the year previous. Not at all. I think Payne moving into 13 actually took us backwards, not just as an overall backline (though this is certainly true), but also specifically at 13. I think you might agree with that Neil, and I agree that it's possible that we took a step back to go forward. And when we've Piutau at 15, an in-the-groove Payne at 13, any 2 of our 3 best wingers, any of Cave/Stu/Stu/Luke at 12, Jackie and Ruan - that'll be a serious backline.

But for me, Payne to 13 is to accommodate the future arrival of Piutau, or to accommodate Ireland (though why Kearney is undropable is beyond me at this stage). It's not because Payne, at that time, was a better 13 than Cave.

In my opinion of course... :fleg:

In time?
He's near retirement age for feck sake

Cave
Better passer
Defender
Distributor
Organiser

Payne
Kicks the ball away like a chube and has never made a head on one on one tackle

There's absolutely no discussion as to who the better 13 is
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Re: Contract situation

Postby ruckover » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:57 pm

Neil, your arguments are far too coherent for this forum. It concerns me.
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Polls

Glasgow vs Ulster MOTM

Jared Payne
2
3%


Louis Ludik
25
40%


Darren Cave
3
5%


Stuart McCloskey
0
0%


Stuart Olding
0
0%


Rob Lyttle
1
2%


Charles Piutau
4
6%


Paddy Jackson
18
29%


Ruan Pienaar
2
3%


Andy Warwick
0
0%


Callum Black
0
0%


Rob Herring
0
0%


Rory Best
0
0%


Rodney Ah You
3
5%


Ross Kane
0
0%


Alan O'Connor
0
0%


Peter Browne
0
0%


Franco van der Merwe
0
0%


Iain Henderson
0
0%


Sean Reidy
3
5%


Roger Wilson
1
2%


Clive Ross
1
2%


 
Total votes : 63

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