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Shoulder to Shoulder

Talk about the men in white, and everything Ulster!!

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Re: Shoulder to Shoulder

Postby big mervyn » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:42 pm

Cap'n Grumpy wrote: Surprisingly, he just couldn't get his head round it.


How many bangs on the head did he get?
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Re: Shoulder to Shoulder

Postby Dave » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:45 pm

big mervyn wrote:
Cap'n Grumpy wrote: Surprisingly, he just couldn't get his head round it.


How many bangs on the head did he get?
Not enough.
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Re: Shoulder to Shoulder

Postby Deraless » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:46 pm

I recall a comment made by PO'C after the Italy international at Ravenhill how he was surprised that there were a lot of people in the crowd wearing green. Who has filled their heads with this stuff?

Are they unaware for example that the IRFU has a ticket allocation for the Black North? What do they think happens to those tickets? Do they think no-one from Here goes to Lansdowne?

For him to say he doesn't understand is bs. Unless of course he's thick. It's more like he couldn't be hooped taking the time to inform himself.

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Re: Shoulder to Shoulder

Postby BaggyTrousers » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:07 pm

Cap'n Grumpy wrote:Well done BT for facilitating that little bit of propaganda, BTW. :roll:


Don't blame me ya ballix. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I respect your respect for THProd's right to hold his opinion, I have some sympathy for his opinion given, I know a man very well who was lifted in operation Motorman and interned without trial for a couple of months. I'd stake my left ball on him not being a terrorist.

That said, I too believe that the majority released under the GFA, or, as that sourfacedcunt Jim Allister would correct you, The Belfast Agreement :roll: , would have been crims in my eyes. However, FFFS, it is symptomatic that the waankers in Nordieland even fight about the name of an agreement, if it sounds disingenuous, that's because it is.

Anyway, nothing I can contribute having chosen not to watch it, but THProd, your reference to "concerned resident" status for the dissenters, go away and ride your hand, you meatpuppet, I am not a rugby groupie willing to put up with any old shyte because a "name" presents it.

I prefer my documentaries to be presented by someone who has at least taken the trouble to research his/her subject, I can't be doing with some dickwad who just comes over as somebody who earned a few quid and couldn't be arsed preparing for the subject (according to & based on what I read here). It sounds like he shortchanged BT Sport just as he has done the Irish Rugby clubs who have paid him heavy & much coin to turn up and be a legend.

If I chose to believe him to be a despicable wee shyte, it is literally none of your feckin' business. Capiche?
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Re: Shoulder to Shoulder

Postby BaggyTrousers » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:12 pm

Deraless wrote:I recall a comment made by PO'C after the Italy international at Ravenhill how he was surprised that there were a lot of people in the crowd wearing green. Who has filled their heads with this stuff?

Are they unaware for example that the IRFU has a ticket allocation for the Black North? What do they think happens to those tickets? Do they think no-one from Here goes to Lansdowne?

For him to say he doesn't understand is bs. Unless of course he's thick. It's more like he couldn't be hooped taking the time to inform himself.

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The guys in question are rugby legends, that doesn't necessarily mean they are either likeable or terribly clever in anything but how to chase a ball around a pitch.

On the reverse side of the knowledge of Nordieland issue, of course, I'd question whether many here or in the Ulster squad are particularly well versed in the politics or indeed history in the Free State. Most I'd guess wouldn't have a lulu.
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Re: Shoulder to Shoulder

Postby Cap'n Grumpy » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:22 pm

BaggyTrousers wrote: I know a man very well who was lifted in operation Motorman and interned without trial for a couple of months. I'd stake my left ball on him not being a terrorist.

I too know several who were lifted in Motorman who were not involved. And remember there were those on both "sides" of the community interned. In my eyes there were innocents lifted on both sides too.

However, the comment I took exception to had nothing to do with internment - that had been done and dusted years before the referenced agreement (put whatever label you want on it, but presumably we can agree not to agree with Jim Allister?).

Once someone picked up the gun or bomb on "either side" - I hate those terms, but you know what i mean, - they become crims in my eye, not political prisoners if and when caught.

For me the only two sides that matter are the ones who abide by the laws of the land, and those who don't.
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Re: Shoulder to Shoulder

Postby Dave » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:31 pm

The attitude from many folk that I have encountered from RoI regarding NI has been largely poor and lazily misinformed. Often based on ignorance, myth and rumour, in my view. I say that as someone who identifies as more Irish than British. There are many in RoI who, until challenged, often will not freely acknowledge the role played by southerners in the troubles. The gun running, the bomb making, the bomb planting, the disappearing etc...

It's those bloody Nordies again etc. The same ugly attitude emerged during the trial and subsequent acquittal of our boys. The 'Belfast Rape Trial' it was often referred to in the southern press. So defensive of the rights of their own citizens that they enshrine their right to privacy in law, should they be accused of a sexual crime. For a couple of Nordies it was open season, fair game and free meat.

For me, BOD, seems to be epitomising this attitude, the same one I have encountered. Did he ever refer to any of the other provinces as basket cases? Would he? No.

He has an opinion on everything these days. Just because he was good at rugby does not mean I wish to hear him speak. In fact my life would be far richer should he never utter a sentence in public again, ever.

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Re: Shoulder to Shoulder

Postby flatpass » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:36 pm

Recorded it and have now watched it. Some of it is hard to take, some of it reflects poorly on BOD, but worth watching for the contributions of Willie John McB, David Duckham, Jimmy McCoy, Doc Irwin, Nigel Carr and Trevor Ringland. Can’t have been easy for some of them reliving difficult times. Great respect for them. Men of character. Not bad rugby players either.
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Re: Shoulder to Shoulder

Postby Cap'n Grumpy » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:16 pm

flatpass wrote:Recorded it and have now watched it. Some of it is hard to take, some of it reflects poorly on BOD, but worth watching for the contributions of Willie John McB, David Duckham, Jimmy McCoy, Doc Irwin, Nigel Carr and Trevor Ringland. Can’t have been easy for some of them reliving difficult times. Great respect for them. Men of character. Not bad rugby players either.

Quite! Some of these guys you mentioned were either under threat, or nearly lost their lives in the troubles for playing rugby.

Wasn't sure if I saw it quite right at the time, but when Doc Irwin got out of the car at the scene where he was blown up with Philip & Nigel, it looked to me that he wasn't just getting out of the car, but escaping from the camera as the emotion of a particularly bad memory of an event that could have killed any or all of them, caught up with him.

I used to hate David Duckham. Not for any personal reason, simply because he was such a fine athlete and rugby player and was so in an England shirt. In those pre-European days, it never bothered me what he did in a Coventry shirt, and he was a positive asset to the Baa-Baas, but he was always a danger when playing for England. Would have loved to have had a player like him on our side (Ireland) and respected him so much for his rugby ability. I recall the English coming over the year after the Jocks and Taffs refused to, but didn't know any individuals' roll in bringing that about. In light of what he said and how he acted after his conversation with WJMcB, I will respect Mr Duckham a little bit more now.
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Re: Shoulder to Shoulder

Postby BaggyTrousers » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:40 am

Cap'n Grumpy wrote:
BaggyTrousers wrote: I know a man very well who was lifted in operation Motorman and interned without trial for a couple of months. I'd stake my left ball on him not being a terrorist.

I too know several who were lifted in Motorman who were not involved. And remember there were those on both "sides" of the community interned. In my eyes there were innocents lifted on both sides too.

However, the comment I took exception to had nothing to do with internment - that had been done and dusted years before the referenced agreement (put whatever label you want on it, but presumably we can agree not to agree with Jim Allister?).

Once someone picked up the gun or bomb on "either side" - I hate those terms, but you know what i mean, - they become crims in my eye, not political prisoners if and when caught.

For me the only two sides that matter are the ones who abide by the laws of the land, and those who don't.


I was and am agreeing with you, more or less completely.
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Re: Shoulder to Shoulder

Postby BaggyTrousers » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:05 am

Cap'n Grumpy wrote:
flatpass wrote:Recorded it and have now watched it. Some of it is hard to take, some of it reflects poorly on BOD, but worth watching for the contributions of Willie John McB, David Duckham, Jimmy McCoy, Doc Irwin, Nigel Carr and Trevor Ringland. Can’t have been easy for some of them reliving difficult times. Great respect for them. Men of character. Not bad rugby players either.

Quite! Some of these guys you mentioned were either under threat, or nearly lost their lives in the troubles for playing rugby.

Wasn't sure if I saw it quite right at the time, but when Doc Irwin got out of the car at the scene where he was blown up with Philip & Nigel, it looked to me that he wasn't just getting out of the car, but escaping from the camera as the emotion of a particularly bad memory of an event that could have killed any or all of them, caught up with him.

I used to hate David Duckham. Not for any personal reason, simply because he was such a fine athlete and rugby player and was so in an England shirt. In those pre-European days, it never bothered me what he did in a Coventry shirt, and he was a positive asset to the Baa-Baas, but he was always a danger when playing for England. Would have loved to have had a player like him on our side (Ireland) and respected him so much for his rugby ability. I recall the English coming over the year after the Jocks and Taffs refused to, but didn't know any individuals' roll in bringing that about. In light of what he said and how he acted after his conversation with WJMcB, I will respect Mr Duckham a little bit more now.


My starting point is to hate all English rugby players up to the point where they prove that to be wrong. Duckham was particularly easy to dislike as he appeared to epitomise all that was "entitled" about English rugby. Duckham, and English captain & hooker, west country farmer, John Pullin, got to that point where they proved me wrong............just by turning up, a skill that John Pullin played on at the dinner afterwards, "we may not be very good, but at least we turn up", his barb to the whiteliveredcunts from Wales & Scotland who let Ireland down then, just as they let Ireland down, though this time to my great amusement, when voting for France for RWC 2023.

When the scared Taffsn'Jocks failed to turn up, it should also be remembered that France turned up in 1972 to play a friendly against Ireland, just managing to escape with their lives, though beaten for the second time in a few months. What is seldom referenced is that Ireland had won in Paris and London, had knocked the Jesus out of Wales the last time in 1970 & routinely beat the Jocks so a team with Willie John, CMH Gibson, Syd Millar and other great Irish players were denied a probable Grand Slam.

And finally, the round of applause for England in 1973, was the longest and most heartfelt of any such thing I've ever been involved in, I genuinely think people only stopped because their hands were getting sore. It was highly emotional at the time.

Perhaps I'll put aside my dislike of O'bar steward and watch it.
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FIRFU - FU'CK YOU ONE AND ALL, CAVING IN TO SPONSORS, SACKING THE INNOCENT FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE, SHAMEFUL BASTA'RDS. YOU'VE LOST MY SUPPORT & I HOPE MORE ULSTERMEN & WOMEN
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Re: Shoulder to Shoulder

Postby Tender » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:19 am

Nope. I won’t waste time ignoring BOD or any of his fellow traveler’s.
I’ve lived long enough to know what they’re about and I’ve no need to reinforce my knowledge.
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Re: Shoulder to Shoulder

Postby pwrmoore » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:42 am

Cap'n Grumpy wrote:I did actually think it was a half-decent programme in which as most have pointed out, he just couldn't understand the concept of being British is not the same as being English. If he thinks about Welsh and Scots being British, but still Welsh or Scottish, maybe he will put 2 and 2 together.



I wonder is the problem here that many southerners think of Irish in terms of being a citizen of the 26 county republic rather than in terms of being from the island of Ireland. Though if that is the case I'd like to understand what they think we are.
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Re: Shoulder to Shoulder

Postby rumncoke » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:06 am

Maybe its because the GOD that was BOD knew nothing before he decided to do the programme and maybe hopefully he and others may have learnt something from it.

The fact is it the attitude of the Sein Fein and Republicans that deny the Northern Prod to identify solely as Irish in the same manner as the Scots define themselves as Scottish.

Whither the Agreement is a "Good " Friday Agreement or better defined as the Belfast Agreement depends on whither you think the Agreement is actually a good Agreement-- maybe Jim has a point -- it was fine in the short term if you were an optimist but flawed long term for the pessimist .
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Re: Shoulder to Shoulder

Postby promenader 2 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:45 pm

pwrmoore wrote:
Cap'n Grumpy wrote:I did actually think it was a half-decent programme in which as most have pointed out, he just couldn't understand the concept of being British is not the same as being English. If he thinks about Welsh and Scots being British, but still Welsh or Scottish, maybe he will put 2 and 2 together.



I wonder is the problem here that many southerners think of Irish in terms of being a citizen of the 26 county republic rather than in terms of being from the island of Ireland. Though if that is the case I'd like to understand what they think we are.

That might be part of the problem, but it's not the whole story. Unlike many in the northern rugby fraternity, a lot of people from the wider unionist tradition here would cut their own tongue out before they'd describe themselves as 'Irish'. Some are reluctant even to use the term 'Northern Irish' to describe themselves, preferring instead to stick with the plain old 'British'. I know that 25 years of the violence here has a lot to do with that and that many from the unionist tradition have been alienated from any sense of Irishness by the IRA and INLA. However, we can't go blaming the Mexicans for not being aware of the 'Irishness' of many unionists up here, when so many other unionists are telling them that they are British, 100%, exclusively, not even a smidgin of Irishness, never! never! never!
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