Gibbes Waikato bound - confirmed

[Liz Fraser]

In the interests of fairness, and while I think we can’t get him off the premises quick enough, I heard a contrary view the other day - short version rugby’s a business, can’t blame the guy for at least talking to someone offering a massive paycheque, and can’t blame him for wanting out of Ulster as he was told a bunch of lies to get him here in the first place... unfortunately that’s where the conversation ended so I’m none the wiser as to what he was supposedly told (but if Logan was involved unsurprising tbh)

Im glad you posted this Columbo because it's more or less my feelings too.
Ask yourselves this, if Irish ambitions didn't force people to stay, how many of our star players would still be here?

Gibbes is not bound by those restraints but he has been here long enough to see the way we treat our staff and the stranglehold D4 has on us.
He has jumped whilst he has his reputation relatively still in tact which could have been obliterated in another season.
This is what we traditionally do with our coaches.

The last thing we can be annoyed about is his disloyalty or lying as this is the culture we have created at UR and he's only following the example set and standard practise.
Hung by our own petard is the expression I believe.

Gibbes can go with a clear conscience to a side now that possesses potential to be a dominant European force and realise he's had a let off.
I know the expression you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear but regarding our pack he made a good fist of it.
Fair play.

[Cockatrice]

What many are missing is that Gibbes was far from fully committed to the cause here from the off-set... just look at his conditions to put to UR for coming 1. He had to be in NZ at Xmas and 2. Depending on that visit to NZ he would have to revise his situation.... despite this we signed a coach and sold it to fans that here was the messiah who would move us forward in the coming 2 years except of course he wasn't actually committing to after Xmas. Sold more lies...

[rumncoke]

Colombo that should be amended to " If Logan and D4 were involved it can be assumed he was may well have been lied to "

Although at the time he was approached the Ulster backline consisted of Payne ,Piutau Bowe, Trimble, Stockdale, Gilroy, Marshall, Olding, McCloskey, Cave, Jackson and Marshall ( p ) only 5 yes five of those names will be available next year. And for the season just past 3 were never available and a number seldom available.

And what did D4 provide for Ulster in those circumstances it allow Ulster to sign CL on a short term contract .

It is worth noting a large number of those departing only made public their decision after Logan with a smile on his face announces PJ and SO have been told to FO !!

There are nearly as many former Ulster backs in Munster as Ulster

[Bart S]

In the interests of fairness, and while I think we can’t get him off the premises quick enough, I heard a contrary view the other day - short version rugby’s a business, can’t blame the guy for at least talking to someone offering a massive paycheque, and can’t blame him for wanting out of Ulster as he was told a bunch of lies to get him here in the first place... unfortunately that’s where the conversation ended so I’m none the wiser as to what he was supposedly told (but if Logan was involved unsurprising tbh)

Im glad you posted this Columbo because it's more or less my feelings too.
Ask yourselves this, if Irish ambitions didn't force people to stay, how many of our star players would still be here?

Gibbes is not bound by those restraints but he has been here long enough to see the way we treat our staff and the stranglehold D4 has on us.
He has jumped whilst he has his reputation relatively still in tact which could have been obliterated in another season.
This is what we traditionally do with our coaches.

The last thing we can be annoyed about is his disloyalty or lying as this is the culture we have created at UR and he's only following the example set and standard practise.
Hung by our own petard is the expression I believe.

Gibbes can go with a clear conscience to a side now that possesses potential to be a dominant European force and realise he's had a let off.
I know the expression you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear but regarding our pack he made a good fist of it.
Fair play.

Unless the family situation has been dramatically altered (for better hopefully, rather than worse) then taking the La R job would leave a very sour taste in my opinion. He was at pains to point out he was not leaving for another club then signed for Waikato a couple of days later (wonder if the story was about to break). He also said he was leaving for family reasons (his words and nit just Logan’s ir Bryn’s) https://www.rugbypass.com/news/jono-gib ... e-waikato/. Oh and let’s not forget all the great things he said about ulster (the great future, building something special etc and mixed emotions about leaving).

One also wonders what his stock would be in New Zealand and in his home province of Waikato. Remember, taking on the job was “an honour” and he had to do justice to the colours.

Wanting to get out of the shambles that has been Ulster this season is one thing, but IF he takes the La Rochelle job AND the family situation hasn’t really changed then I would say he has been disrespectful to both Ulster and Waikato.

[Cockatrice]

Gibbes claims to be packing his bags on Wednesday so he ain’t hanging around much.... don’t know what to make of it all he was told lies we were told lies... lies and Ulster seem to be normal bedfellows these days.

[Liz Fraser]

In the interests of fairness, and while I think we can’t get him off the premises quick enough, I heard a contrary view the other day - short version rugby’s a business, can’t blame the guy for at least talking to someone offering a massive paycheque, and can’t blame him for wanting out of Ulster as he was told a bunch of lies to get him here in the first place... unfortunately that’s where the conversation ended so I’m none the wiser as to what he was supposedly told (but if Logan was involved unsurprising tbh)

Im glad you posted this Columbo because it's more or less my feelings too.
Ask yourselves this, if Irish ambitions didn't force people to stay, how many of our star players would still be here?

Gibbes is not bound by those restraints but he has been here long enough to see the way we treat our staff and the stranglehold D4 has on us.
He has jumped whilst he has his reputation relatively still in tact which could have been obliterated in another season.
This is what we traditionally do with our coaches.

The last thing we can be annoyed about is his disloyalty or lying as this is the culture we have created at UR and he's only following the example set and standard practise.
Hung by our own petard is the expression I believe.

Gibbes can go with a clear conscience to a side now that possesses potential to be a dominant European force and realise he's had a let off.
I know the expression you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear but regarding our pack he made a good fist of it.
Fair play.

Unless the family situation has been dramatically altered (for better hopefully, rather than worse) then taking the La R job would leave a very sour taste in my opinion. He was at pains to point out he was not leaving for another club then signed for Waikato a couple of days later (wonder if the story was about to break). He also said he was leaving for family reasons (his words and nit just Logan’s ir Bryn’s) https://www.rugbypass.com/news/jono-gib ... e-waikato/. Oh and let’s not forget all the great things he said about ulster (the great future, building something special etc and mixed emotions about leaving).

One also wonders what his stock would be in New Zealand and in his home province of Waikato. Remember, taking on the job was “an honour” and he had to do justice to the colours.

Wanting to get out of the shambles that has been Ulster this season is one thing, but IF he takes the La Rochelle job AND the family situation hasn’t really changed then I would say he has been disrespectful to both Ulster and Waikato.

Absolutely regarding Waikato.
Unless they are complicit with the whole subterfuge of course.
Regarding us as I say it will not have been lost on Gibbes the way we have treated our coaches and players in the past.
We deserve all we get.

The only thing I'm amazed about is that he came here in the first place for which we should be grateful.
Its taken a while but when you look at the performances of our pack of late particularly by some of the youngsters you can see his influence.
He's basically managed to get a pack of Daves at AIL league standard into Europe.
No means feat and I wish him well for that.

[BaggyTrousers]

Houl'on a second, the bit about FIRFU stranglehold is bullshite, sure he knew that after 4 years in Mexico, nothing new.

That said, I remain very much not bothered where he goes, he's gone. The only thing remaining is deciding if he gets an entry into my Big Book of Cun'ts.

[BR]

Houl'on a second, the bit about FIRFU stranglehold is bullshite, sure he knew that after 4 years in Mexico, nothing new.
.

Maybe one man's/province's stranglehold is another's arm around the shoulder.

[Dave]

It's a pity. Jonno had the makings of a good head coach.

[justinr73]

Right but didn’t the improvement in the pack and defence actually coincide with JG slinging his hook, JP getting involved and Rory’s rallying cry?

[Dave]

Right but didn’t the improvement in the pack and defence actually coincide with JG slinging his hook, JP getting involved and Rory’s rallying cry?

No way of knowing. Since we blame the guy charge when it goes badly shirley we should give Jonno some praise for the recent improvement with a dung squad.

I think Andy Farrell had a lot to do with the defence. Payne isn't officially a coach but still he is better than Les Kiss.

[justinr73]

Well we could do.

Those line outs though .....

Line speed was excellent at times yesterday.

Good squad pic afterwards. Warwick has a very red face though.

[Dave]

Well we could do.

Those line outs though .....

Line speed was excellent at times yesterday.

Good squad pic afterwards. Warwick has a very red face though.

Was the Hond there?

[Mac]

La Rochelle trip 'will be a mark on his reputation for years to come' - Neil Best

Leaders should lead as far as they can and then vanish. Their ashes should not choke the fire they have lit.

In front of what has been reported as one of their lowest attendances of the season Ulster comfortably saw off the Ospreys to secure Champions Cup Rugby next season.

For some time now, I’ve been a proponent of wholesale change at Ulster and the playoff against Ospreys held no upside for the Club’s current top brass. A win couldn’t make good their irreparable relationship with the fans – significantly reflected by the playoff attendance – and losing would only add to the noise for more departures. There is something seriously wrong when some fans feel forced to resort to not attending matches just to be heard.

Weak leadership has been one key factor in the Club’s more recent decline. Add to that poor management and player recruitment and you have a culture of failure that can only be cured by wholesale high level change. It pains me to say that I played in the last Ulster side that actually won anything – and that’s by now already over a decade ago.

And as difficult as the last number of seasons have been, it was the moment Ruan Pineaar was forced out of Ulster that has proved to be the turning point. Supporter optimism, tolerance and patience snapped as it became clear Ulster felt unable or were unwilling to steer their own ship. It was even rumoured that CEO Shane Logan threatened to resign over the Pienaar issue but was ultimately seduced by self-preservation. In retrospect he should have, potentially salvaging his reputation in the process. Because once he became a victim of IRFU interference it was only ever going to repeat itself. For Ruan, read Jackson and Olding, and for Jackson and Olding read Carbery or Keatly.

But for Ulster’s unhealthy relationship with the IRFU and poor provincial management – I hold responsible not just CEO Shane Logan, but operations director Bryn Cunningham. Bryn, a one-time teammate, has responsibility for “the professional game” at Ulster, and has to date managed to skilfully sidestep much of the criticism levelled at the CEO. Yet both have culpability for recent failings – in coaching and player recruitment and retention.

When Gibbes announced he was leaving Ulster he gave an interview to the Belfast Telegraph, at the beginning of March, disclosing that he had told Les Kiss before joining Ulster that he might not see out his contract. And by Christmas, within only a few months of arriving -for whatever reason – he was already looking his exit.

It was never probed as to what stage Logan or Cunningham were made aware, but you do have to question the logic of bringing in a coach – even with a Gibbes level reputation – who tells you upfront he might not see out his contract. And somewhere in the organisation someone must take responsibility equally for that as with Dan McFarland’s potential late arrival. Interestingly, Brendan Fanning – a man with a good ear for rumblings at the IRFU – in his independent.ie preview of the playoff he made explicit reference to Cunningham being held responsible in Dublin for the McFarland “bit-up”. If this is right it might rule out Bryn’s chances of seeing of succeeding Logan as CEO.

But as much as I see neither Cunningham nor Logan as part of the solution – they cannot be held responsible for Jono Gibbes daft behaviour in recent days. At one time many believed Gibbes would be a large part of the solution at Ulster, performances and results improved under his stewardship. And when he dropped the bombshell of needing to return home, the announcement was greeted with sympathy and regret. Then La Rochelle.

Whether Gibbes likes it or not his French jaunt will be a mark on his judgement and reputation for years to come. Not because it impacted on the team’s technical preparation – but because it provided a huge distraction only days before the biggest game of the season. And because it encouraged people to form the impression he hadn’t been completely candid when he first announced he was leaving.

He got annoyed when he was asked post-match if events of last week had left a sour taste – he denied it – but many will feel cheated by him and bitter. Not least his employers who received no advanced notice of his trip and had to rely on the media for their information.

If I was La Rochelle I would be closely scrutinising his statements about events over the last six months before formalising any contract.

Against that remarkable backdrop the Ulster players lifted themselves in adversity and won a season-defining match. And that gives hope. Maybe when the off-field change finally happens the future might be bright after all.

We shall draw from the heart of suffering itself the means of inspiration and survival.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/la-roche ... -neil-best

[BR]

Right but didn’t the improvement in the pack and defence actually coincide with JG slinging his hook, JP getting involved and Rory’s rallying cry?

Biggest turning point was Kiss's long overdue departure. IMHO