FOLK

[breakdown]

Sacking Kiss would only further paper over the cracks

It would at least one less crack

True but in time we would be back to where we are now

I don't necessarily think Kiss and his coaching team is as bad as it seems

Attitude within the whole organisation stinks

No one is accountable throughout both the management and squad
No leadership, just as the above
big fish small pond syndrome
Poor higher level management
Academy structures ruined by Campbells egotistic management

The whole place needs a strip down or review from top to bottom, but at that i'm not sure getting rid of Kiss is the perfect instant fix

The only positive is the A side who surprise surprise is coached by Anderson who doesnt take any nonsense from anyone, a straight talker who says it like it is - that's what we need more of before we move in a positive direction

Campbell coaches the A team also. Anderson is Ulster Elite Player Development officer which would mean he would have quite a large investment in the Academy.

To ridicule Campbell and praise Anderson is baffling. They would both appear to be peddling the same boat.

Think both are doing a better job than previous incumbents based on the progress of the A team this season and several academy forwards holding their own at senior level Timoney, Rea, Dalton

It’s been well documented Campbell has got rid of O’Donnell from the academy because he didnt like him. Given O’Donnell is one of the best young 9’s in quite a while, is it overly professional to refuse someone an academy place purely based on a personal dislike of someone?

[Cockatrice]

It has to be the end for Kiss he has had some unfortunate luck with injuries to his players but he has not built a team and has presided over dilution of the heart and soul of the team.For example backs really do not know from one week to the next the position they will play assuming they are picked however one thing is certain McCloskey will be there because week in week out he's the go to guy to take on opposition forwards and try to gain ground. Of course that unchanged tactic has stymied the back line, slowed everything down, ruined his development as a player and left him without a passing or layoff element to his play. An easy read for any opposition!!!!!!!Opt e tot
With Ulster Rugby at the moment Nero fiddling and Rome burning comes to mind. We are leaking tries,have no coherent defence,no consistency in either selection of play,no one appears to be addressing the issue,players are deflated and should be but no one is putting their head over the parapet. Season ticket holders like me have been aware for years of problems in the system and the solution was always around the corner. Many of us have hung in there while Anscome the swimming coach was dispatched,we waited while Clarke and Doak had a war,we let the management treat McLaughlin awfully. We have been looking forward to better things and that has not happened.
I remember when I would not have missed a match at Ravenhill but over the past 3 to 5 years i have been coming away from the ground disappointed with the performance more times than I have been elated. Now I don't feel I'm missing anything if I don't go to a game and as for season ticket renewal,don't think so this year!!!!!!

some people have already forgot that it isn't just the change in personnel but the fact that frequently they will train during the week only for Kiss to tinker and move 2-3 players around particularly in the backs..

the other thing that our team apparently do now is little or no physical contact work during the week so as not to strain themselves or get injured.. I suppose what some of us level at the French approach to training when we watch huge packs in key games being dragged around the park to tire them out.. why would we adopt the French approach to training?

[Dublin4]

Interesting piece by Gordon D'Arcy on Ulster's plight this morning:

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.3366196

[BaggyTrousers]

snipe.. I agree but it must also surely go deeper.. the people that put Kiss in place are escaping any scrutiny and it will be them that either make the decision to keep him, dump him, thereafter either promote Gibbes who is being tainted on a daily basis with what is happening or remove him and decide on who the next best coach in the world is... they are a closed shop with no transparency and that doesn't help our cause.

Cockers, sorry pal but you are wrong, every man and his dog knows that the colonel is a problem, he has been marked absent again this season, nothing to say as things go from bad to worse, just as he disgracefully sat on his hands while for 2 or 3 years Clarke and Doak squabbled.

Any credit he once enjoyed with the unwashed has long since blown away on the autumn winds. You cannot be a leader by sitting on your hands, when things are wrong you change them rather than sitting reading your bible and hoping for a miracle to make things better.

I know not one sinner who thinks Kiss is the only problem but he is the immediate problem that is killing the team.

We the great unwashed don’t know how things work in Spanners therefore are unable to suggest all that should change. I’m more than happy to hear opinion on that but in the here and now KISS needs to go and the only question is have they the wit to do it now and implement change or do we waste the next 6 months and change then?

[Polly Cotton]

Sacking Kiss would only further paper over the cracks

It would at least one less crack

True but in time we would be back to where we are now

I don't necessarily think Kiss and his coaching team is as bad as it seems

Attitude within the whole organisation stinks

No one is accountable throughout both the management and squad
No leadership, just as the above
big fish small pond syndrome
Poor higher level management
Academy structures ruined by Campbells egotistic management

The whole place needs a strip down or review from top to bottom, but at that i'm not sure getting rid of Kiss is the perfect instant fix

The only positive is the A side who surprise surprise is coached by Anderson who doesnt take any nonsense from anyone, a straight talker who says it like it is - that's what we need more of before we move in a positive direction

Campbell coaches the A team also. Anderson is Ulster Elite Player Development officer which would mean he would have quite a large investment in the Academy.

To ridicule Campbell and praise Anderson is baffling. They would both appear to be peddling the same boat.

Think both are doing a better job than previous incumbents based on the progress of the A team this season and several academy forwards holding their own at senior level Timoney, Rea, Dalton

It’s been well documented Campbell has got rid of O’Donnell from the academy because he didnt like him. Given O’Donnell is one of the best young 9’s in quite a while, is it overly professional to refuse someone an academy place purely based on a personal dislike of someone?

Can I see were this is documented , or is it a case of red tinted glasses by a parent or disgruntled school coach, Messr Campbell and Anderson would appear to be on the right track, two years in row into last 8 of a team competition, Ulster Schools a team or squad they did not inherit winning the Intetpros , 9-11 Under 20s in Ireland squad, players breaking into 1st XV, I may be old and cynical but the sniping about O'Donnell stinks more of personal opinion, I am not a coach but I have watched my three lads play representive rugby and along side O,Donnell, I have seen a good player , but a professional future, No.

I do not accept that personality dislike is a bar to gaining a place in the Academy, I would say it's down to ability and future planning, I would guess some players won't get the chance as the succession planning rules out a player as there is strength already identified and it's about the future. Is that not a great place for the Academy to be in, they can now pick and choose and plan for the future.

If he wants to make it then his ambition should be outside Q1 or AIL ?

[damianmcr]

Interesting piece by Gordon D'Arcy on Ulster's plight this morning:

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.3366196

Any chance of posting it?

[Russ]

Interesting piece by Gordon D'Arcy on Ulster's plight this morning:

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.3366196

Gordon D'Arcy didnt know when to walk away.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Russ]

Interesting piece by Gordon D'Arcy on Ulster's plight this morning:

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.3366196

Any chance of posting it?

Lol subscriber only content
When i lived in dublin i liked the IT but not enough to pay for it

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[BR]

no good ball = backs suffer

You don't need good ball to be able to defend.

Our squad is made up of 4 components:
1) Superstars/Marquee-players/... call them what you will, but we are talking about players with a decent reputation in world rugby, and often a salary to match.
2) Journeymen
3) Developing talents - many of whom have shown that they indeed have something worth developing
4) Extras/Daves/Squad fillers - we will all disagree who falls into this category and opinion will change from week to week. But most of these guys have been in one of the other catagories at some time during their careers. Their reasons for decline may be varied, but unfortunately may include the time they have spent in the Ulster squad.

Most of our players are not in group 4 (or should not be IMHO). Therefore Kiss has indeed got talent to work with. My problem is that he doesn't seem to be able to do anything with them and the team is now less than the sum of its consistent parts.

[ovalballs]

Interesting article by 1F on the Munster Fans website under Ulster. He's getting very frustrated with the unpredictable performances. Mentions the lack of any game plan last Sunday. Not pulling punches.

[damianmcr]

Copy and paste!!!!

[Russ]

Interesting article by 1F on the Munster Fans website under Ulster. He's getting very frustrated with the unpredictable performances. Mentions the lack of any game plan last Sunday. Not pulling punches.

Copy and paste!!!!

Getting sick of this
Driving clicks to websites

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[ovalballs]

Stephen Ferris fumes at ‘all over the place’ Ulster

Former flanker criticises coaching at province and laments lack of homegrown players

about 5 hours ago
Johnny Watterson
0



Former Ireland international rugby player Stephen Ferris: “They are the Arsenal of the Premier League. They are the underachievers.” File photograph: Leon Farrell/Photocall Ireland.

“There is just something not right,” says Stephen Ferris with more than a hint of annoyance in his voice. His old team Ulster are flopping one week, performing the next.
When you expect from them they lose, when you fear for them they win and it doesn’t seem to matter who the opposition are. But don’t ask because they don’t know themselves.
Fickle on the pitch and now also out of the European Champions Cup, there is no longer a hiding place for his views. The dander of Ulster, Ireland and Lions flanker is up.
“They are the Arsenal of the Premier League,” says Ferris. “They are the underachievers.”
“Eddie O’Sullivan calls it the bungee cord. Ulster are up one week, down the next.
“It seems to be like all the players are singing off different hymn sheets. Everybody isn’t buying into what the gameplan is. I didn’t see a gameplan on Sunday. There was no gameplan.”

In 2010, Ulster were ushering in a new era. The previous year a new stand at Ravenhill had been officially opened by first minister Peter Robinson before a match between Ulster and Bath Rugby.
Chief executive Shane Logan, who had just taken over from Michael Reid, spoke of Ulster at the top of Europe, a world class team in a world class facility.

That was seven years ago and the brimming optimism has dulled. Riddled with self-doubt, Ferris now sees world class Ulster as the lowest rung of the provincial ladder.


Gordon D’Arcy: sacking Les Kiss won’t solve Ulster’s problems
Prop Kyle Sinckler out of England training camp with injury
Four Irish rugby players nominated for European Player of the Year




“Shane Logan’s words not mine,” he says. “We want to be top of the pile in Europe and the world and that was in 2010. They’re far from it, far from it. They are the worst-performing team in Ireland. They won one half of rugby from six, against 13 and 14 men of Munster over the interprovincial series. That gives you an indication of where this Ulster team is at.

“Shane Logan has to be made accountable for firstly making those comments and then when why that hasn’t happened. From those comments come expectations and fans are now remembering that in 2010, Ulster were saying we’re the best in the world and we have all this money in the bank. I’ve heard the best speech in the world about 15 times and it is wearing a bit thin.”

Malaise

In hindsight, Ulster may look on the dumping of loyal South African scrumhalf Ruan Pienaar as hasty, the court cases of Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding as unforeseen and the non-arrival of All Black outhalf Stephen Donald as convenient.

“For me, there’s something more behind it. We’re not in the quarter-finals of Europe, now he [Donald] is not coming over,” he says conspiratorially.
He sees more of a malaise, more discomfort at the heart of the club, Ulster further from their cultural moorings than they have ever been and still drifting.
Clearly hurting he says Ulster sometimes looks very Afrikaans and if not that a little blue. Like the Leinster academy. He says many of the players are Irish qualified but not from the red-bricked heartland.

He says Sean Reidy is from New Zealand, Wiehann Herbst from South Africa, Kieran Treadwell is English, Alan O’Connor and John Cooney are from Leinster and Christian Lealiifano from Australia. He could go on.
“You walk into the Kingspan Stadium and people are starting to talk about watching South Africa’s B team instead of watching an Ulster team,” he says.

“All the Leinster academy seems to be in the Ulster academy. Or, sorry, on the Ulster team.”
It is easy to blame the coaches Les Kiss, Dwayne Peel and Jono Gibbes and Ferris does just that. They are, he says, like the top brass and team, simply not performing.

“It’s not good,” he says. “The pack go away to Connacht and get absolutely demolished. Jono Gibbes isn’t even there. He’s back in New Zealand eating his Christmas dinner. That doesn’t sit well with me. Everything just seems to be all over the place.”

Johnny McPhillips in action for Ulster A against Canada A. The 20-year-old could be set for a run in the number 10 jersey for Ulster. Photograph: Brian Little/Inpho/PresseyeJohnny

McPhillips at outhalf is now an Ulster option. But the 20-year-old knows they don’t want him there because they wanted Donald.In the coming weeks Rory Best and Iain Henderson will be with Ireland while other leaders such as Tommy Bowe, Andrew Trimble and Darren Cave are no longer first choice. There are hard weeks ahead.


“The Paddy Jackson stuff is hitting court this week,” says Ferris. “Who do Ulster look to for leadership? Looking from the outside in, it doesn’t feel like everybody is buying into what Ulster Rugby has always been about.”
He feels the contrast burning. And it’s just 100 miles down the road. Finally Ferris begins to purr.

“It would be very, very hard to not pick 15 Leinster guys in the Ireland team,” he says. “They’ve got a squad of players. You talk about a culture.

[Dublin4]

D'Arcy:
The powers that be in Ulster find themselves on familiar territory. The previous solution – lop off the coach’s head – has brought them back around to the same problem.

What’s the definition of insanity, again?

Escaping this Ravenhill – sorry, Kingspan – quagmire requires a deeper thought process. Hopefully they know this.

I’m not privy to Ulster team meetings or training, obviously, but I know the calibre of their coaches. I worked with Les Kiss with Ireland and Jono Gibbes in Leinster. I also toured New Zealand with Dwayne Peel in 2005.

When Ulster have performed this season I have seen improvements in their attack from this time last year. That’s a combination of good coaching and Christian Lealiifano playing flat to the line.

The overriding problem does not lie with the coaches. A club begins in its academy and ends in the boardroom.

An understandably frustrated Stephen Ferris says Ulster have been building for 12 years, and while Fez has a point, how many cycles or false dawns have occurred?

Too many.

They keep journeying a certain distance with a specific plan only to make sudden directional change.

Decisions have come from the top down, from chief executive Shane Logan (who was appointed in 2009), that have led to an undercurrent of discontent emanating from supporters and critics alike.

David Humphreys – Ulster’s legendary outhalf who led them to a European title in 1999 – leaving the director of rugby post to join Gloucester in 2014 was an indictment of Logan’s governance. The foreign coach – Mark Anscombe after Matty Williams – didn’t work out. Those born into Ulster rugby – Mark McCall and Brian McLaughlin – some confidently state in hindsight, were not given enough time.

Each decision has led Ulster to where they now reside: out of the Champions Cup at the Pool stages, yet again, and blatantly lacking the necessary depth of talent in every position.

Outhalf problems are glaring. Stephen Donald’s failed medical can become a blessing in disguise if they fully support Johnny McPhillips. It’s unfair to rush a young player into the professional spotlight but there’s little alternative.

This is what happens in a sports club with flawed succession planning. Sometimes they stumble across a gem, mostly they become badly exposed.

It looks as if there will be eight Leinster produced players and a Cork man on the Ulster roster next season. They currently have eight South Africans, three of whom are Irish-qualified.

Let’s see how head coach succession planning, or lack thereof, brought Ulster to Kiss and Gibbes.

Home-made and foreign coaches have had equal opportunity since McCall, current Saracens director of rugby, left in November 2007. In 2009, Matt Williams was replaced by Humphreys who appointed ex-Ulster players, Neil Doak and Jeremy Davidson, as assistants to head coach Brian McLaughlin.

Entering the 2012 Heineken Cup final, against Leinster at Twickenham, everyone knew McLaughlin was being replaced that summer by Anscombe.
Ulster’s Jared Payne’s harsh red card for a collision with Saracens’ Alex Goode during the Heineken Cup quarter-final in 2014 still feels like a watershed moment for the province. Photograph: Brian Little/Presseye/Inpho Ulster’s Jared Payne’s harsh red card for a collision with Saracens’ Alex Goode during the Heineken Cup quarter-final in 2014 still feels like a watershed moment for the province. Photograph: Brian Little/Presseye/Inpho
The next two seasons were peak Ulster in the modern era with their downward spiral – a word used by Kiss over Christmas – dating back to one moment: Jared Payne’s red card four minutes into the 2014 Heineken Cup quarter-final against Saracens in Belfast. It remains a harsh and hugely costly call by referee Jerome Garces and still feels like a watershed moment for the province.

Ulster were stacked with international and local quality: Johann Muller was a towering captain, John Afoa a recent All Black tighthead, Nick Williams broke the gainline at will and Ruan Pienaar directed affairs from scrumhalf with Stephen Ferris, Rory Best, Tommy Bowe and a young Iain Henderson providing the tools needed to capture a European title.

That team disintegrated when Humphreys joined Gloucester – taking Afoa with him – as Muller and Ferris retired. Anscombe was sacked and temporarily replaced by Kiss, who only fully took over after the 2015 World Cup, as Doak ran the squad in his absence.

This season Kiss replaced Doak and Allen Clarke with Gibbes and Peel. That’s almost constant upheaval with plenty more promised from the playing panel.

Sliding doors

Imagine the sliding doors scenario of Leinster removing Michael Cheika after defeat in Edinburgh meant we failed to get out of our Pool in 2008.

Plummeting season ticket sales could have swayed the Leinster decision-makers but instead they trusted the man they recruited. That was Cheika’s third season in charge. Come May 2009 we won the Heineken Cup for the first time. Nobody predicted the influence of Rocky Elsom and Johnny Sexton but the strategic vision – from the academy to boardroom – allowed us to build upon the initial success.
Ulster head coach Les Kiss understands defence and how to plant the seeds for a self-sustaining team culture. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho Ulster head coach Les Kiss understands defence and how to plant the seeds for a self-sustaining team culture.
Kiss has yet to complete a second full season at the helm. There is no magic switch to solve deep-rooted problems.

When the IRFU rejected Ulster’s and Kiss’s appeals to keep Pienaar a disastrous season seemed guaranteed, especially when Marcell Coetzee and Payne were crocked while no internationally recognised props were signed, but John Cooney has proved a goal-kicking revelation in the number nine jersey.

Hope is not lost.

We are entering a fascinating period in Ulster rugby history. If they can drown out external wailing and focus on the job at hand then all previous failings can be avoided.




Big “if” considering their unclear strategic planning.

Cooney replacing Pienaar proves there will be life after Charles Piutau and Bowe. Jacob Stockdale is lighting that pathway.

But the pack, mainly the tight five, is a glaring weakness. They are over reliant on Best and Henderson. Ideally, Marty Moore will arrive from Wasps this summer in the best shape of his life while Jordi Murphy journey’s north from Dublin with an action-speaks-louder-than-words attitude to help feed a much-needed cultural renaissance.

They also need at least one more international standard lock and prop.

I’m sure this Ulster squad are a tight-knit group but sometimes being best of pals can actually hinder the building of a strong culture. I played in really happy teams with nobody rocking the boat and we won nothing. You can dislike a guy and still put your body on the line for him. Tension, when harnessed correctly, lays the platform for everyone to feel equal. Honest feedback is essential for a successful culture.

Many people – the loudest fans and media voices – are demanding the silver bullet solution. But sacking the coach hasn’t worked. It isn’t possible to separate the failings of the academy structures (and grassroots talent ID systems) and the senior team.

Perhaps Ulster need fresh eyes. A deep thinker on sporting values. I’d be fascinated to read what Jim McGuinness thinks about the strategic planning of underage Ulster structures. Bring all that GAA and professional soccer knowledge into rugby.

I hope Les Kiss is afforded the opportunity to see out his vision; to hell with this season – it’s already a failure – and retrain focus on small victories such as winning at home in style.

Give the people what they want where possible. We know from the La Rochelle game that the emotive performance still exists in Belfast. But that should be the standard every time they tog out at home.

The pursuit of excellence does not happen by chance. Nobody likes being told they aren’t doing something right but winners understand the value of feedback and are open to their failings because they want to get better.

Humility is required.

Enormous knowledge

The overriding question: do the people in charge have the stomach to weather this storm or will they seek another quick fix?

Block out the noise. Believe you have selected the right men for the job. Les Kiss understands defence and how to plant the seeds for a self-sustaining team culture. Ireland won a Grand Slam and two Six Nations titles – under different head coaches – with Les working in the background. Jono is a natural born leader and he can only have brought enormous knowledge to Ulster from his Clermont experience.

There is a moment with every team when a flip of a coin dictates their fate. That’s just sport. It happened to Ulster in April 2014 when Payne was ball watching as Alex Goode leaped above him, smashing his hip into Payne’s head and crashing to earth, head first.

They have yet to recover and I expect it to get worse before the dawn.

The process only truly starts when everyone is on the same page. Ask all the stakeholders in Ulster rugby – chief executive, coaches, players, fans – about their expectations for the senior team.

Now ask everyone what is stopping them turning expectation into reality. If the management, coaches and players are not aligned, if they can’t live by the same values, then the same problems will remain unsolved.

[therealspratt]

Ulster head coach Les Kiss understands defence and how to plant the seeds for a self-sustaining team culture.

Would really question that about Kiss. His ideas on defense seemed to have become outdated before he even left the Irish team, and I would say Farrell improved Ireland's defense when he was gone.