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MCB v Regent scores

ny and all to do with skules

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Re: MCB v Regent scores

Postby Cap'n Grumpy » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:39 am

DHK wrote:Fair play to MCB, totally outclassed us. People can talk about the seeding system or a favourable draw but don't take anything way from regent in getting to the final, they deserved to be there based on the fact that they beat who was put in front of them on 4 previous occasions.


Don't listen to those who try to take away from your achievement DHK. You didn't arrange your draw, you beat those who were drawn against you, and when you get over the disappointment (and you will), you will be able to look back over a lifetime at the days you played on the hallowed turf, and be proud of achieving something that not many of us have done.

Well done over the SEASON!
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Re: MCB v Regent scores

Postby pwrmoore » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:18 am

I felt that while MCB we're the deserved winners, the scoreline made the victory look far more emphatic than is was. MCB had some serious defending to do and Regent were unlucky not to have made it onto he score board. Regent also defended strongly but at times Methody had just too much power. So wile the chances of a result going the other way were slim I wouldn't have called it a mismatch.
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Re: MCB v Regent scores

Postby Rooster » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:21 am

shamalicious wrote:Very one-sided game but have to feel for the Regent guys. Methody very efficient from start to finish. Think we might see some future Ulster stars in their no. 8,12, and 13! That guy Macklin was ferocious!

Every year someone gets noticed on the winning side at the final but actually how many of them get full time contracts in rugby? (not a question for cables just for people to think)
Plenty of players have come through from sides that never made it that far, Rory Best and Neil Best are good examples.
Schools rugby is a numbers game and Methody should in that respect always be near or at the top providing they have a decent coach, most of the smaller schools are depending on an unusual balance of players in perhaps 2 years of school intake and even then unless they have a top notch coaching setup they will struggle, it's the same in all school sports.
A knockout competition will always have some mismatch draws and the best 2 sides will not always get to the final, but those that do deserve credit for getting that far, they still have the games to play.
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Re: MCB v Regent scores

Postby Cap'n Grumpy » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:27 am

pwrmoore wrote:I felt that while MCB we're the deserved winners, the scoreline made the victory look far more emphatic than is was. MCB had some serious defending to do and Regent were unlucky not to have made it onto he score board. Regent also defended strongly but at times Methody had just too much power. So wile the chances of a result going the other way were slim I wouldn't have called it a mismatch.

Well said, Paul!
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Re: MCB v Regent scores

Postby shamalicious » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:54 am

I suppose Rooster it also depends on how many of them go on to play at university or club level as well!

I saw highlights of the BA vs MCB match and really felt for the Academy (but I would be slightly biased!) That would have been some final!
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Re: MCB v Regent scores

Postby Ball Boy » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:37 pm

I seem to have set the cat among the pigoens with my "makes you wonder about the seeding system" comment. My (lack of)knowledge about this is entirely based on the chools cup Wikipedia entry (You didn't expect real research!) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Schools_Cup

It talks about seeded teams but doesn't explain how they're chosen.

I was simply seeking elucidation myself.

The idea of extending the amount of meaningful competition seems laudable but, as the cap'n put it, there seems to have been a proliferation of jug, jampot, and saucer trophies since my day.
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Re: MCB v Regent scores

Postby colinh » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:50 pm

Cap'n Grumpy wrote:
DHK wrote:Fair play to MCB, totally outclassed us. People can talk about the seeding system or a favourable draw but don't take anything way from regent in getting to the final, they deserved to be there based on the fact that they beat who was put in front of them on 4 previous occasions.


Don't listen to those who try to take away from your achievement DHK. You didn't arrange your draw, you beat those who were drawn against you, and when you get over the disappointment (and you will), you will be able to look back over a lifetime at the days you played on the hallowed turf, and be proud of achieving something that not many of us have done.

Well done over the SEASON!


Agreed ..... it is quite an achievement to ge there. It is a day those boys will never forget.
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Re: MCB v Regent scores

Postby Cap'n Grumpy » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:59 pm

Ball Boy wrote:The idea of extending the amount of meaningful competition seems laudable but, as the cap'n put it, there seems to have been a proliferation of jug, jampot, and saucer trophies since my day.

I never mentioned the jug or jampot trophies! :lol:

With the number and degree of seeding, I'm amazed they haven't come up with a flowerpot trophy yet :flower:
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Re: MCB v Regent scores

Postby cables » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:16 pm

Eight schools came into the competition at Round 4. The draw for that round resulted in 3 games involving ONLY schools joining in at that stage. (It could even have been 4 games.)

It is the ‘free’ manner in which this draw is carried out that increases the possibility of so called mismatches in the subsequent stages of the competition.

If the avoidance of this is deemed desirable, would it not be better if the draw was structured such that each pre-qualified team played one of the new entrants in Round 4?
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Re: MCB v Regent scores

Postby Cap'n Grumpy » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:25 pm

cables wrote:Eight schools came into the competition at Round 4. The draw for that round resulted in 3 games involving ONLY schools joining in at that stage. (It could even have been 4 games.)

It is the ‘free’ manner in which this draw is carried out that increases the possibility of so called mismatches in the subsequent stages of the competition.

If the avoidance of this is deemed desirable, would it not be better if the draw was structured such that each pre-qualified team played one of the new entrants in Round 4?

Not sure if it would be "better", it would certainly be a solution to a perceived problem - IF it is deemed desirable.

Is it desirable, though?

(What about 'home' advantage too? Perhaps we could pre-determine that aswell?)
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Re: MCB v Regent scores

Postby cables » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:49 pm

All my fence sitting phraseology nicely highlighted or italicised Cap'n. :thumright:

I personally like to see a 'pre-qualifying' team getting a run to the later stages of the competition - stuff that dreams are made of.
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Re: MCB v Regent scores

Postby Cap'n Grumpy » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:03 pm

cables wrote:All my fence sitting phraseology nicely highlighted or italicised Cap'n. :thumright:

Was aware of that as I posted :thumleft:


cables wrote:I personally like to see a 'pre-qualifying' team getting a run to the later stages of the competition - stuff that dreams are made of.

I would concur :thumright:

(Still like to see Methody do well, though, and now, Regent too. This year I had it both ways.)
Last edited by Cap'n Grumpy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MCB v Regent scores

Postby cables » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:04 pm

As it happens Rooster, I did once look at 'progression' but from a level higher than Ulster Schools Cup.

I would be fairly certain that Jim Neilly would be able to provide the answer.

I started to look at the Irish U21's to see how many progressed to a full senior cap.

I looked at the U21's 1988 to 2000 and the new caps 1989 to 2001.

Approx 213 U21 players and 124 new caps, so close to half did not make the final level. It may be more than that as I did not check the 124 new caps to see if they had all been capped at U21 level. I may someday. :wink:
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Re: MCB v Regent scores

Postby bogboy » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:45 pm

In the fifties the schools were seed then the non seeds where drawn and a school could predict if they won the frist match who they might play in each round up to the final

what you have now is an FA cup type draw where every winning team goes into the hat but some teams are introduced into the draw at a later stage of the competion similiar to the FA Cup

The system can throw up some heavy early games and might assist a lesser team to final

It may throw up a mismatch final but it does give some schools the chance to get to final other than the usually
MCB Inst CCB Belfast trio

Which is not a bad thing I suppose and is a just reward to the players in schools with fewer pupils

With regard to yesterdays Final the Methody Pack was the major force three players at over 17 stone

The Methody side on average looked about a year older than Regent and played a good game of rugby

But for the display of rugby given Regent deseved more than a 36- nil scoreline

Yes they were out played but they never willing gave in

So Regent hold the heads up

I love the MCB warm up

a couple mock rucks pass the ball along the backline including a few second and backrow players faced by the tackle bag holders

second row takes the ball at pace runs flatout at the tackle holder and sends him 5-8 yards down the pitch

Brillant -- scrared the s--t out of me never mind any Regent players watching

worth a ten point start in anyones book
2B or not 2B that is the question ?
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Re: MCB v Regent scores

Postby CR12 » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:53 pm

I read a similar thing somewhere before and from memory there are quite a few Ulster players who also won the schools cup: likes of Jeremy Davidson, Mark McCall, Jonny Bell, Paul Shields, Paddy Wallace, Stephen McKinty, Gordon Hamilton, Neil McMillen, Roger Wilson, Niall Malone, Kenny Hooks and there are many more from before my time.
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